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Republican Candidates position on NLRB!

PCL_128

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Ticket prices have jumped recently, and we have seen the resultant drop in airline traffic.
Wrong. Load factors are stable and yields are up.
 

pilotyip

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Wrong. Load factors are stable and yields are up.
Not what I read in ATW, what is your source, is it higher loads on fewer flights? It has certainly effected growth as shown by a slow down in hiring plans. Again the consumer will determine how much money can be paid for an airline ticket.
 

HA25

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Middle Class has changed over the years.... back in the 50's it was an autoworker or steel plant worker... usually a blue collar guy who took home enough that he was able to keep a 5 year old or newer car in the driveway, pay off his home with a 15 year mortgage, and set aside enough for a monthly vacation and the kids education...that with a retirement pension waiting for him at around 62-65. All this while his wife stayed home. Fast forward today, with the cost of things, the big lie of how inflation hasn't been high, and the erosion of salaries, with the increase of productivity (read more work, for less income).... we're looking at a guy making AT LEAST $250,000 to have the same life... is that middle class? I don't know... it's not upper class I can tell you as someone who's averaged that much over the years.. I don't live like the upper class.... I don't have anywhere near what they have.

The term middle class, and the percentiles in todays work are meaningless... it's akin to the marketing term "3/4" ton truck... most of today's 3/4 Tons' are far more capable and can carry double that weight... but they're still referred to as 3/4 Ton's.. Well, we keep calling $75K middle class.... but truth be told, that's working class or lower... ESPECIALLY if *gasp* God forbid you want your wife to stay home with the kids (as does she)...
 

pilotyip

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Middle Class has changed over the years.... back in the 50's it was an autoworker or steel plant worker...
Not true I grew up middle class in the 50's we had a 1200 sq ft house, a one car garage, a 9" B&W TV, a party line on the phone, 6 kids in the family, 3 BR one Bath. We got soda pop maybe once a month, going out to eat was only big events like a birthday.That was a typical middle class neighborhood. I think we now call that family as living in proverty. BTW Increased productivity, means more produced for the same cost. Eliminate jobs because employees are expensive, therefore widgets produced per employee goes up. The employees who keep their jobs normally make more, at least that was the history of the UAW until they BKed the big 3
 
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HA25

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Not true I grew up middle class in the 50's we had a 1200 sq ft house, a one car garage, a 9" B&W TV, a party line on the phone, 6 kids in the family, 3 BR one Bath, That was a typical middle class neighborhood. BTW Increased productvity, means more produced for the same cost. Eliminate jobs because employees are expensive, therefore widgets produced per employee goes up. The employees who keep their jobs normally make more, at least that was the history of the UAW until they BKed the big 3
Sad how much Koolaid you've ingested... you're beyond help.
 

pilotyip

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Sad how much Koolaid you've ingested... you're beyond help.
You were defining 50's middle class, I lived it, did you? and yes kool aid was a special drink we could have on the weekends BTW You do not need $250K/yr to live that 50's middle class life style.
 

HA25

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You were defining 50's middle class, I lived it, did you? and yes kool aid was a special drink we could have on the weekends BTW You do not need $250K/yr to live that 50's middle class life style.
have you spent much time outside the US? Namely in the Northern part of Europe? You seem to think that the American middle class is the trailer park class... and that's fine, you're entitled to your own set of expectations and your own sense of value.. I'm done here however. Peace out.
 

pilotyip

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Someone's else's view on middle class

have you spent much time outside the US? Namely in the Northern part of Europe? You seem to think that the American middle class is the trailer park class... and that's fine, you're entitled to your own set of expectations and your own sense of value.. I'm done here however. Peace out.
Median Income, the 2008 census reported the medium income as $50,233. The PewResearch Center suggests that the middle income range is 75 percent to 150 percent of the median income. This would make the middle class income range $37,675 to $75,350. To most, this range seems small, and surveys conducted by the PewResearch Center find that many who fall outside this range still consider themselves middle class.

Economist's Views, economist Gary Burtless of Brookings Institution indicates that the middle class encompasses from one-half the median income to twice the median income. This would make the middle class income range $25,117 to $100,466. MIT economist Frank Levy believes that those in the middle class have enough money to afford the basic building blocks of a good life, including a house, a car and money to pay necessary bills. He suggests that families in their prime earning years are middle class if they fall between $30,000 and $90,000.

More Than Income, surveys conducted by the PewResearch Center confirm that salary, or income, range is not the only determining factor of what class a person considers himself. Four out of 10 Americans with incomes below $20,000 classify themselves as middle class. On the other end, one-third of those who enjoy incomes over $150,000 say they are middle class.

And the tax burden for median income has dropped from 6% to 4% between 1955 and 2008.

Your $250/yr middle class person seems to be fitting into the upper middle class by a long shot. But they again you are well off and consider that average

BTW A 1400 sq ft house, like mine, is trailer park trash?
 
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HA25

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BTW A 1400 sq ft house, like mine, is trailer park trash?
I wasn't saying you were living in a trailer park, just that your idea of middle class is.... no offense was intended to you. With that said, 1400sf is about 1/3 the size of my house that I live in and about the size of the 3 rentals I own.... I frankly find those way too small to put any more than 1 kid in, but then I can afford otherwise, many can't..
 

pilotyip

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I wasn't saying you were living in a trailer park, just that your idea of middle class is.... no offense was intended to you. With that said, 1400sf is about 1/3 the size of my house that I live in and about the size of the 3 rentals I own.... I frankly find those way too small to put any more than 1 kid in, but then I can afford otherwise, many can't..
back to the post above that matches my definition of Middle Class, they don't live in 4,200 sq ft homes like you.
 

HA25

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back to the post above that matches my definition of Middle Class, they don't live in 4,200 sq ft homes like you.
I never claimed to be middle class.... I'm clearly upper middle class... I earn over $350K a year and some times well over.. with less than 1/2 of that coming for flying on average... albeit the last couple of years my flying wage from overseas contracting has been substantial. However, I own real commercial estate worth over 9M and I work purely for something to do since managing my property hardly takes any time or effort.

None of that changes ANY of the facts of the underlying argument... the middle class is being squeezed, the rich are getting richer and the middle class poorer and working harder for their paltry wages... We're fast becoming more like some 3rd world countries, while other countries like France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, the Swiss, and the Scandinavian nations are beating us on my levels for quality of life for the middle class, which is always the backbone of any true 1st world nation.

What DO YOU have to say about Warren Buffet and Bill Gates' comments that I ASKED YOU to comment on? Still waiting on a good rebut for that post.

btw, take your time and come up with a good answer... I'm about to operate VHHH-KLAX and will be away from reality for about 24 hours.. peace.
 
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pilotyip

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Yes I looked a those guys, it is irrelevant, collections from the upper 1% have remained steady over the years no matter what the rate.http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

Again middle class is defined by median income, middle class remains constant
 

HA25

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Yes I looked a those guys, it is irrelevant, collections from the upper 1% have remained steady over the years no matter what the rate.http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

Again middle class is defined by median income, middle class remains constant
Buffet and Gates; Irrelevant, eh?

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/20...-at-lowest-point-in-years/UPI-74091273594893/


MORE IMPORTANTLY:
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

And to define the "Middle Class" by Median income baffles the mind.. I mean I don't know where to start with that one.. Have you taken any courses on economics and/or statistics? So let me get this straight, if in 20 years, the US was made up of 1 million people all making over a million, and 299 million people all making $25,000/yr (just for arguments sake)... does this make the new Middle class people making $25,000???
 
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pilotyip

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Been an interesting exchange, you have your ideas which you feel are superior to mine, and you appear to feel superior to me. Which works for me. That is the beauty of a free country. Let me go back and hang out with my middle class friends, who seem happy with their lot in life. Best of luck
 
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PCL_128

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Not what I read in ATW, what is your source
Our former CEO, and just about every other airline CEO on every earnings call. The only yields that are down are international yields. Do a Google search on airline yields. You'll find that we just reached a 15-month high last month. Rising ticket prices simply aren't affecting yields. The problem is that gas prices are climbing even faster than the yields are, so the profit margins are slim. But if oil prices drop, the pricing power is there to extract huge profits right now.

It has certainly effected growth as shown by a slow down in hiring plans.
Growth has slowed because of fuel prices. No one is willing to risk growth until oil prices stabilize. But you'll notice that no one is pulling a lot of capacity out of the market. It's just stagnating, while yields continue to increase.
 

pilotyip

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Our former CEO, and just about every other airline CEO on every earnings call. The only yields that are down are international yields. Do a Google search on airline yields. You'll find that we just reached a 15-month high last month. Rising ticket prices simply aren't affecting yields. The problem is that gas prices are climbing even faster than the yields are, so the profit margins are slim. But if oil prices drop, the pricing power is there to extract huge profits right now.



Growth has slowed because of fuel prices. No one is willing to risk growth until oil prices stabilize. But you'll notice that no one is pulling a lot of capacity out of the market. It's just stagnating, while yields continue to increase.
hope you are right, it would be a good sign of a growing economy and more people buying new cars.
 

AirCobra

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You guys have it all wrong and are stuck in a rut, too much time working for the airlines. You bought into the union line that without the union you would have no pay and benefits. Wake the F up! ALPA carriers have guys starting at $20 an hour, and pension plans are all but gone. Ever seen the phrase "non-matching 401k"?

The highest paying pilot jobs in the US are Corporate jobs and they are all non-union. I would venture to say a typical Corp Captain makes the same as senior airline captain, and works half as much.

Beisdes a 401k, I have profit sharing, and a pension plan, lets see ALPA get you that.

Start thinking out of the box. Go work for a 135 operator in the northeast for a few years, make some contacts, part time here and there, and eventually you may wind with a job where you will laugh about all the airline and union BS you used to be so passionate about.

If what you guys say about Republicans is true then you should all be voting for them (twice if you are in Chicago). The more they support corporations and hedge fund guys, the more lucrative corporate pilot jobs will be created.

BTW those hedge fund guys are buying up your airlines so skip the holier than thou attitude. Who do you think makes more money and/or has a better schedule? You, or the non-union guys flying your bosses Global Express. Your choice, either continue to wallow in APLA and Democrat vs. Republican BS (ostensibly the same party, saying otherwise is only lie you tell yourself), or take positve action to change your OWN life. Quit waiting for a bunch of initials to do it for you.
 

HA25

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The highest paying pilot jobs in the US are Corporate jobs and they are all non-union. I would venture to say a typical Corp Captain makes the same as senior airline captain, and works half as much.
False! Nobody at any corporate job anywhere makes what a senior Fedex, UPS or even American Airlines captain makes and works less..

If what you guys say about Republicans is true then you should all be voting for them (twice if you are in Chicago). The more they support corporations and hedge fund guys, the more lucrative corporate pilot jobs will be created.
Now that has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on FI.com
 

AirCobra

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False! Nobody at any corporate job anywhere makes what a senior Fedex, UPS or even American Airlines captain makes and works less..
You are mistaken! Check out the NBAA stats. I have seen GV FO's start at AA Captain pay with a pension, per diem, expense account, paid cell phone, and annual bonus. I know a FO that got hired at a pharmaceutical company for $140,000 a year. Corp Captains in the Northeast typically make between $180,000 and $230,000 a year and some average as little as 200 flight hours a year. Let me add this, if you are 40, and get hired at Delta, how old will you be when you make Captain? considering regionals have 7-10 year FO's right now.


Now that has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on FI.com
I guess the satire escaped you. I was poking fun at guys like you. It's as idiotic to think if you vote Democrat you are going to get a sudden pay increase and see your pension come back, or that any Dem politician is looking out for you out of the goodness of his or her heart. Except for false rhetoric what was the difference between the Bush and Clinton years as far as pay and benefits went for airline pilots?


Keep passing out the Kool-Aid and see where it gets you.
 
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PCL_128

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AirCobra, that "typical" corporate guy in the Northeast that you talk about has to actually live in the Northeast, probably close to Teterboro, Boston, White Plains, or a similar city with an incredibly high cost of living. Him making $180k is like me making $120k in Atlanta. He's also likely to be required to come into the office/hangar on days he's not flying to handle other responsibilities. In addition, even though he's only flying 200 hours a year, he's also spending days at a time away from home not flying while he's waiting on the rich pr!ck he works for to get done with his vacation in Aspen.

Sorry, but that's not too appealing to most of us. I'm much happier making six figures with 16-18 days off at the airlines and not having to deal with some rich jerk, his high maintenance wife, his spoiled kids, and his a-hole business associates. To each his own, though.
 
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