Red Label Pay

doh

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The new red label payscales look pretty good. How many actual pilots will be on those scales? Netjets will have 100% of their pilots on the new scales they negotiate. By my math, we will have less than 20% on red label. Remember, those are only for the three captains per airplane, and no new red label for at least the first half of 2016.
The only good thing about this announcement is management's admission they can afford much better compensation than we are currently receiving! A YES vote will unlock those scales for ALL of us!
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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So 20% getting red herring pay looks good to you? I'm voting yes for the (hold my nose) local1108. Even though the 1108 isn't perfect, I will back them 110% starting NOW. NO favors during peak travel. I have been pushing thru the holidays at the expense of my friends and family-AND what do I get? A raise for the FOK? Just doesn't cut it this time around.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Something like NJI. Use Flight Options pilots to crew new Flexjet airplanes. They take a PLOA and get a seniority # at the bottom of the Flexjet list but fly the large cabin aircraft as PIC's at a payscale below Flex pay. But they are "Friends of Kenn " so they get special treatment for doing favors for Uncle Kenn.
 

NachoMamma

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Something like NJI. Use Flight Options pilots to crew new Flexjet airplanes. They take a PLOA and get a seniority # at the bottom of the Flexjet list but fly the large cabin aircraft as PIC's at a payscale below Flex pay. But they are "Friends of Kenn " so they get special treatment for doing favors for Uncle Kenn.
Holy crap YGBSM...do they lose their number from the FO side by doing so? Are there any actual takers for this load of sh!t? Self worth cannot be taught...you either have it, or you don't.
 

993_Pilot

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Holy crap YGBSM...do they lose their number from the FO side by doing so? Are there any actual takers for this load of sh!t? Self worth cannot be taught...you either have it, or you don't.
Sadly there are takers, and obviously they are mostly self serving. Unfortunately, there are not many repercussions when management illegally interferes in a representative election like they are doing. Oh wait, I forgot... after they illegally fired the 3 Flexjet organizers, they had to re-hire them. Maybe they will get another slap on the wrist this time.
 

BlueNose

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They ... fly the large cabin aircraft as PIC's at a payscale below Flex pay.
That will change if Kenn has his way. He's set what he thinks should be the top payscale in the company with this program. These are his new version of the five-stripers, his 'best of the best of the best.' If the Flex guys think their pay won't decrease accordingly, if KR is free to act after he wins his hearts and minds campaign, they're about to learn a tough lesson.

As the saying goes, 'Experience is a hard teacher because first she gives the test, the lesson afterward.' But the FO guys have already had their lesson, it's an open book test and they're offering their notes. If you go it on your own? Oh, there won't be any money, but when KR is through with you, you will receive total consciousness. So you've got that going for you, which is nice.
 
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imacdog

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Looks like management is going to win the divide and conquer game.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Holy crap YGBSM...do they lose their number from the FO side by doing so? Are there any actual takers for this load of sh!t? Self worth cannot be taught...you either have it, or you don't.
That's part of KR's plan to divide and conquer. The fools that take the bait have no idea what is in store for them.

And to sweeten the deal, they get to keep their FO seniority #'s. If they can't make the cut at Flex, they can return to Options. Pathetic!
 

flexible

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So 20% getting red herring pay looks good to you? I'm voting yes for the (hold my nose) local1108. Even though the 1108 isn't perfect, I will back them 110% starting NOW. NO favors during peak travel. I have been pushing thru the holidays at the expense of my friends and family-AND what do I get? A raise for the FOK? Just doesn't cut it this time around.
Now? Youve been union stooge the whole time
 

flexible

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That will change if Kenn has his way. He's set what he thinks should be the top payscale in the company with this program. These are his new version of the five-stripers, his 'best of the best of the best.' .
The rest of you're post is drivel but this does
concern me too. If this is what the top tier looks like it is not what he promised whould be best paid.

He had change to show what he means but didn't impress me. That might put me on fence especially since Rick had no answer to my concen.
 

BlueNose

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The rest of you're post is drivel but this does
concern me too. If this is what the top tier looks like it is not what he promised whould be best paid.

He had change to show what he means but didn't impress me. That might put me on fence especially since Rick had no answer to my concen.
'Drivel,' you say, with that syntax and spelling? Glass houses, my friend. Hope that fence doesn't give you splinters. Cheers.
 

flexible

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'Drivel,' you say, with that syntax and spelling? Glass houses, my friend. Hope that fence doesn't give you splinters. Cheers.
No posting from phone with fat fingers. I just mean the rest don't matter to me. The new top tier pay is not top teir.

Rl means essentially 50 mini corporate flight depts with built in sub cintractors, leverage and bulk discounts. Last I saw a cfd manager was 250 base easy for shops with new birds plus bonuses. Not even g6. I seen cl30 and 604 shops gives this. So how does rl being inside a bigger Corp justify discrepancy. Should have made it more not less since owners fees are leveraged and bulk discounts factor in.
 

BlueNose

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No posting from phone with fat fingers. I just mean the rest don't matter to me. The new top tier pay is not top teir.

Rl means essentially 50 mini corporate flight depts with built in sub cintractors, leverage and bulk discounts. Last I saw a cfd manager was 250 base easy for shops with new birds plus bonuses. Not even g6. I seen cl30 and 604 shops gives this. So how does rl being inside a bigger Corp justify discrepancy. Should have made it more not less since owners fees are leveraged and bulk discounts factor in.
KR doesn't think pilots are worth that much, and sees that money as his. The answer really is that simple. I've never been a union cheerleader, but sometimes they're the only friend you have, even if they're friends you have to pay for. Look at it as a simple business decision, because that's what it really is for the other two parties (KR and IBT). Will you be better served financially by trusting KR and taking what he sees as your fair compensation, or by banding together to apply leverage and giving a cut to the IBT for their services? I think history and experience make for an obvious answer, but each will need to make that decision on his/her own.
 

Bjtdrvr

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If Kenn changes the schedule to an 8/6 how much raise does that work out to be?
 

993_Pilot

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...Look at it as a simple business decision, because that's what it really is for the other two parties (KR and IBT). Will you be better served financially by trusting KR and taking what he sees as your fair compensation, or by banding together to apply leverage and giving a cut to the IBT for their services? I think history and experience make for an obvious answer, but each will need to make that decision on his/her own.
A-Friggen-Men.

Seriously... if you can only look at this question from the most cynical and self serving point of view, ask what is best for you?... Supporting Management who wants to improve their bottom line based on lowering their expenses, of which pilot salaries are a huge one, or supporting the IBT who wants to increase their revenues which increase with the pilot salaries.

Honestly, I don't believe the question is anywhere near that simple, and there are a lot of other reasons to vote for the IBT. The biggest one is history, which should always be considered. KR is a proven liar when you look at his history, so nothing he says can be believed.

Don't believe the lies, don't take a chance with your future. Vote to have a voice. Vote for representation. Vote yes to support the Teamsters 1108. Your career and the future career of all fractional pilots depends on it.
 

warlord19

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If you are an FO pilot, give yourself and your family an immediate(Jan ’16) pay raise, get your 401K re-established, and reap the other benefits of coming on par with Flex pilots. If you want to prove Darwin was right, keep the bullies in power and prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract. If one year after voting NO and management hasn’t lived up to their word, vote the IBT (or someone better) in…they will be there. Our FPOC “leaders” and their bosses use fear and obfuscation to make the pilot group think not voting the IBT in now will be the end of the world…..nothing could be further from the truth. DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF NOW. Vote No and watch us fly.
Cheers
 

realityman

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I worked for KR for 6.5 years. And as a longtime NJ's pilot I've also been with the IBT.

You will lose, every time, by putting your trust in KR.

I did, at times, find the iBT to be self serving. But as others have said, the iBT gains nothing unless the pilots gain too.

KR will say and do anything to keep the union off the property. That in and of itself should tell you all you need to know about how important it is to have one. He has already demonstrated he isn;t above breaking the law to stop it. He REALLY doesn't want it. You should.

I literally flew with KR years ago, and was with him on the flight where he blatantly ignored a SID out of CYYZ because he wanted to get on his way quicker. That was over twenty years ago. He got his pilot certificate suspended for that one (I lucked out because back then the FAA was more interested in dinging the captain than the entire crew). The point is, he has a very long history of thinking the rules don't apply to him. This isn't something new.

How do you know KR is lying? His lips are moving.

Good luck to all of you! Promise you have our support!
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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WL"prepare for a miserable 2-4 years as EVERYTHING is re-negotiated, starting at the Flops contract." The only reason 2-4 years will be miserable is because of MANAGEMENT. The FO pilots' lived thru it before, so we joined the 1108. After SLI, if an amended Joint CBA can't be reached within 9 months, it goes to arbitration. If KR wanted to give us a raise, he could have done it long ago. We have a Union because of management's track record.
 
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