Possible SWA T.A. pay numbers... Embrace the suck.

PCL_128

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My rep told me all of the reps will be at the road shows anyway.

Being there is one thing. Being able to make a presentation is another. All reps could attend our TA road shows, but I certainly didn't allow the dissenting votes to make their own ant-TA presentation when the vote of the MEC was in favor.
 

Lear70

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Eh, just so you know, they have no requirement under the RLA or DFR doctrine to allow that. I'd be shocked if they agree.
They didn't, and they were pretty rude about it, said "there is no mechanism to allow people besides the NC and staffers to be trip pulled and attend, much less present."

I responded asking if, perhaps, they could use the SAME mechanism they did by creating the Neg Oversight Committee then pulling line pilot Tom Dean to be on it with pay. Maybe since they've already set the precedent...

I didn't get a nice response from Mike P, I'll be posting his exact response on the forum later.

I'm not interested in a sales job and spin. As "Just Thinking" mentioned, they're avoiding all the hard questions and just answering the ones they have good answers for that help sell it. (and he probably just didn't have his email address right in his SWAPA profile, there's a lot of people that happened to, doesn't make him a liar).

Back to the issue: No one should be surprised. No negotiating committee in the history of aviation has ever been able to neutrally discuss both the good AND bad of an Agreement; they're too personally invested.

As an interesting aside, there WAS a resolution to attach a "No" vote recommendation, BUT... it never got seconded. It took a lot of arm twisting to finally get them to admit that.

So we have 10 or the 20 reps voting Yes, with most of the reps SAYING they want the pilot group to kill it, but only ONE rep with the balls to try to send it out with a NO recommendation. Trying to find out who it was, everyone has pretty much clammed up once I let them know we would be working to kill it, just like we did at AAI in '07, except instead of just me starting the effort, there's a dozen of us and growing.

Standby for the Section 1 analysis, working on it now. It's an easy 5 year stagnation on growth. Maybe more. I'd like a raise as much as the next person, but not at this price. Hell, a 1 year delay on your upgrade wipes out your raise COMPLETELY.

Oh, and P.S. Hope you like red-eyes, which result in drastically less-efficient lines for only a 3% override instead of the 15% that's currently in our contract. Oh, and you can't trade out of them except for another red-eye. Lots and lots of stuff in this one to hate.
 
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HowardBorden

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Being there is one thing. Being able to make a presentation is another. All reps could attend our TA road shows, but I certainly didn't allow the dissenting votes to make their own ant-TA presentation when the vote of the MEC was in favor.
What a magnanimous dictator you were.

All members in good standing have a right to voice any opinion positive or negative at any road show. I expect my reps who have been fully briefed on this TA to voice any and all opinions regarding the agreement whether they be for or against ratification. Holding an elected office in no way muzzles a member as to their opinions regarding this TA.
 

PCL_128

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What a magnanimous dictator you were.
Thank you!



All members in good standing have a right to voice any opinion positive or negative at any road show. I expect my reps who have been fully briefed on this TA to voice any and all opinions regarding the agreement whether they be for or against ratification. Holding an elected office in no way muzzles a member as to their opinions regarding this TA.

Again, being able to stand up and ask a question or make a statement is not what Lear was talking about. He wants a full presentation of both pros and cons. They ain't gonna do that. I'd put money on it.
 

HowardBorden

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Again, being able to stand up and ask a question or make a statement is not what Lear was talking about. He wants a full presentation of both pros and cons. They ain't gonna do that. I'd put money on it.
You better believe I will be asking each and every rep present at any road show I attend what their recommendation is for the membership vote. These folks have had extensive briefings and I want to know where they stand on the issue. They owe me an honest and forthright answer. Each and every board member needs to be on record as to their personal recommendation. Me personally I needed to read no further than section 1 give aways to know I was firm and unchangeable no. But, I need to know what reps share my sentiments and those that don't so I know who to vote for or against in being my elected representative going forward.
 

PCL_128

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A shame that I resigned. This show could be entertaining. ;)

I agree, BTW. I'm usually not a scope hawk, but it appears that the concessions in your TA would allow at least a couple years of stagnation as the company builds near international feed with code share partners. Bad juju. Unlike RJ feed, that's flying that the airline is likely to do itself if you don't give them the concessions. That is a direct giveaway of jobs.
 

General Lee

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Thank you!






Again, being able to stand up and ask a question or make a statement is not what Lear was talking about. He wants a full presentation of both pros and cons. They ain't gonna do that. I'd put money on it.
Wait, didn't you say the DL TA was going to pass too? You're an idiot! Are you still applying to be a janitor at The Moak Group?




Bye Bye---General Lee
 

Lear70

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Again, being able to stand up and ask a question or make a statement is not what Lear was talking about. He wants a full presentation of both pros and cons. They ain't gonna do that. I'd put money on it.
No, they're not.

They're pushing back pretty hard on the idea, actually, even a couple reps/execs who SAID they don't like the deal but still voted yes "so the pilot group could see it". They clearly do NOT want dissenting opinions with presentation and hard data points at the road shows.

The plan is to have the Rebuttal out by the end of the week so pilots will have it to peruse for about a week before the first road show. At least they'll be able to ask the right questions.

The issue is, will they insist on getting answers THAT ARE BACKED BY THE LANGUAGE...? We'll see.
 

Lear70

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A shame that I resigned. This show could be entertaining. ;)

I agree, BTW. I'm usually not a scope hawk, but it appears that the concessions in your TA would allow at least a couple years of stagnation as the company builds near international feed with code share partners. Bad juju. Unlike RJ feed, that's flying that the airline is likely to do itself if you don't give them the concessions. That is a direct giveaway of jobs.
A couple?

I think you're being generous.

And yes, it is.
 

Lear70

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You better believe I will be asking each and every rep present at any road show I attend what their recommendation is for the membership vote. These folks have had extensive briefings and I want to know where they stand on the issue. They owe me an honest and forthright answer. Each and every board member needs to be on record as to their personal recommendation. Me personally I needed to read no further than section 1 give aways to know I was firm and unchangeable no. But, I need to know what reps share my sentiments and those that don't so I know who to vote for or against in being my elected representative going forward.
Good plan.
 

FurloughedAgain

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I think - respectfully - that you're inserting foul play where there is none. They freely admit that they didn't like the deal but that the moderator wouldn't support them in any further negotiations. If the 23 member board voted the AIP down then the company spins it as an activist board out of touch with the pilots. If 8000 pilots vote it down, it's a mandate.

My reps say they'll be at the road show sharing their opinions. This is emotional enough. I look forward to reading what you write, but let's not assume the worst in the people who are volunteering to do the work of the Union. They have skin in the game too.
 

PCL_128

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Having spent far more time than I'd like dealing with the NMB, I find it almost completely unbelievable that they're losing patience already. I'm sure the mediator may be saying such things to help speed along the process, but unless the execs have been called to K Street to be yelled at a few times, you're nowhere close to the Board's limit. I think what you've got are some negotiators and execs who just don't have the experience dealing with the Board to know how to work the process.
 

FurloughedAgain

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Could be. Do you know anything about the NMB budget being spent for the year already? Supposedly was no $$ left in the budget for any further mediated sessions in 2015.
 

PCL_128

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Could be. Do you know anything about the NMB budget being spent for the year already? Supposedly was no $$ left in the budget for any further mediated sessions in 2015.
That is possible. Their budget has been tight for years. They've been cutting at least as far back as 2009 or so. But nothing prevents the parties from meeting with each other without the mediator, of course.

Just as likely, however, is that the mediator is just putting pressure on them. They'll tell you just about anything to get you moving. That's their job.
 

FurloughedAgain

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Well, either way I think it speaks much louder to have the majority of 8000 pilots vote no than 23 guys who the company already believes are out of touch.
 
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