Pilots expected to picket Warren Buffett-owned NetJets

[NachoMamma]

So tell me if I understand correctly after reading through these posts. If the company can't afford to pay you more than the top paying air carrier (industry leading),then the model is broken and we might as well shut down.

SG

On par with the highest paid air carriers, yes. That is correct. ie: Delta, Southwest, and FedEx.

While, assuming this is actually the case, they SHOULD shut the company down, eventually it will no longer be the company's decision to make.

 

[T-1GUY]

Didn't two BILLiON assets flow into warrens pockets? I think they knew the pilot asks about four years ago...

 

[Some guy]

On par with the highest paid air carriers, yes. That is correct. ie: Delta, Southwest, and FedEx.

While, assuming this is actually the case, they SHOULD shut the company down, eventually it will no longer be the company's decision to make.

Thanks for the honest reply. I know two sides have a different view on how much the company actually makes. I have no idea aside from what BH reports every quarter. I'm not a finance guy, so I wouldn't know.

I don't understand the concept of demanding a salary at the risk of shutting the company down. $300k is great, but if it only lasts 3 years you're SOL when the market floods with 3000 pilots. I do understand you wanting to be on par those carriers, but aren't they paid based on aircraft class or weight? Their pilots over the course of the day carry more revenue than we do. I know your daily duties include quite a bit more than a legacy pilot / crew. Read my posts over the years, you'll never see me say you aren't worthy of better pay. I just don't understand the "I want every penny of profit for me until we shut it down" thought process. We're already the costliest of the on demand carriers, so I don't think raising prices is the best answer either.

SG

 

[Some guy]

Didn't two BILLiON assets flow into warrens pockets? I think they knew the pilot asks about four years ago...

That was loaned money that is being paid back. I don't know if payments on owed money is an asset. The comment I referred to said we should sell our assets. We don't have any assets that I'm aware of aside from a share in our own program.

SG

 

[Diesel]

Thanks for the honest reply. I know two sides have a different view on how much the company actually makes. I have no idea aside from what BH reports every quarter. I'm not a finance guy, so I wouldn't know.



I don't understand the concept of demanding a salary at the risk of shutting the company down. $300k is great, but if it only lasts 3 years you're SOL when the market floods with 3000 pilots. I do understand you wanting to be on par those carriers, but aren't they paid based on aircraft class or weight? Their pilots over the course of the day carry more revenue than we do. I know your daily duties include quite a bit more than a legacy pilot / crew. Read my posts over the years, you'll never see me say you aren't worthy of better pay. I just don't understand the "I want every penny of profit for me until we shut it down" thought process. We're already the costliest of the on demand carriers, so I don't think raising prices is the best answer either.



SG

Ok I'll put it this way.

Your job can be outsourced to India for a fraction of the cost. Why should warren pay you so much. You're already making more than everyone else in your field.

How do you feel about that? Don't you think the company should farm out your work to India to save money?

I mean we're the costliest so why don't we start cutting costs?

 

[brokeflyer]

When a company can afford to ferry a package of Oreo cookies from one airport to another so a different jet can fly the pax with those precious Oreos, I think they can afford to pay the frontline troops.

lol really? is that true they did that?

 

[Pervis]

lol really? is that true they did that?

Yes. You can't make that stuff up.

 

[ghostrider64]

Apparently, 780 "off duty" netjets pilots completely disagree with the likes of G4, he and his ilk are the outliers!

Time for our entire industry to stand the F up!!!!!!

 

[NachoMamma]

I don't understand the concept of demanding a salary at the risk of shutting the company down.

(minimum wage laws aside) If you owned a McDonald's franchise, but could only afford to keep it open if you paid your employees $0.09/hour, would you understand it then? Shouldn't the employees be content with superficial praise (by being called "Team Member" and the "Best fast food workers in the industry") in lieu of pay? Afterall, I'm sure you'd appreciate their hard work and sacrifice for YOUR bottom line, wouldn't you?

$300k is great, but if it only lasts 3 years you're SOL when the market floods with 3000 pilots. I do understand you wanting to be on par those carriers, but aren't they paid based on aircraft class or weight? Their pilots over the course of the day carry more revenue than we do.

It doesn't matter what their revenue stream is. The fact is that there is a going rate for compensation for the "best pilots in the industry" flying the wealthiest people in the world. That going wage is a reflection (withing the range) of the highest paying labor contracts in the AVIATION industry. If an empolyer can't afford to pay the industry wage, then it is officially not a viable business model, and it will eventually fail - as it should.

$300k is not necessarily the requirement either...a salary reflecting the highest paid aviation labor contracts is the goal, and that number needs to be arrived at based on what other premier carriers are being paid.

I know your daily duties include quite a bit more than a legacy pilot / crew. Read my posts over the years, you'll never see me say you aren't worthy of better pay. I just don't understand the "I want every penny of profit for me until we shut it down" thought process. We're already the costliest of the on demand carriers, so I don't think raising prices is the best answer either.

This is a monumental misconception from the other side of the bargaining table - or else it's just shameless propaganda. The union does not now, nor has it ever, demanded "every penny of profit"...that would be silly. What they demand is a wage commensurate with the highest paid aviation contracts currently operating - that's it. Once that goal is achieved, the company, and the BH shareholders, are welcome to every additional penny they bring in. We call that 'profit'. What they don't get to do is short their single greatest labor asset (whether its done for legitimate or illegitimate purposes) just because they're greedy. If there truly is no profit left to be had, then you can - and should, shut it down.

 

[Some guy]

(minimum wage laws aside) If you owned a McDonald's franchise, but could only afford to keep it open if you paid your employees $0.09/hour, would you understand it then? Shouldn't the employees be content with superficial praise (by being called "Team Member" and the "Best fast food workers in the industry") in lieu of pay? Afterall, I'm sure you'd appreciate their hard work and sacrifice for YOUR bottom line, wouldn't you?



It doesn't matter what their revenue stream is. The fact is that there is a going rate for compensation for the "best pilots in the industry" flying the wealthiest people in the world. That going wage is a reflection (withing the range) of the highest paying labor contracts in the AVIATION industry. If an empolyer can't afford to pay the industry wage, then it is officially not a viable business model, and it will eventually fail - as it should.

$300k is not necessarily the requirement either...a salary reflecting the highest paid aviation labor contracts is the goal, and that number needs to be arrived at based on what other premier carriers are being paid.



This is a monumental misconception from the other side of the bargaining table - or else it's just shameless propaganda. The union does not now, nor has it ever, demanded "every penny of profit"...that would be silly. What they demand is a wage commensurate with the highest paid aviation contracts currently operating - that's it. Once that goal is achieved, the company, and the BH shareholders, are welcome to every additional penny they bring in. We call that 'profit'. What they don't get to do is short their single greatest labor asset (whether its done for legitimate or illegitimate purposes) just because they're greedy. If there truly is no profit left to be had, then you can - and should, shut it down.

If the going rate in the McDs industry is .07 and I'm paying .09, sure I might be willing to go .11, but not at the risk of shutting down. At this point, I don't think think any of us know how far apart the two groups are. Maybe they're in the same neighborhood. The idea I get reading some of these posts are that "we have a demand, and there is no negotiation room".

Just because the person in the back is wealthy, doesn't mean anything. I still think the 737 pilot is generating more revenue day to day than you do. You likely work harder and have the same ratings with more responsibilities, but the business models are different. I'll bet our maintenance costs are higher. Our utilization rate (owner vs ferry) legs is much lower. We cover those costs. Maybe you're right and the business model doesn't work. In my mind, I'd take my reasonable paycheck with career stability rather than force the best contract in the industry only to have the Obama economy catch up to us and lose my job in 3 years.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong nor am I saying you're not worth it. I just don't understand the "id rather not have a job" ideology.

300 was a number I threw out there. I have no idea what the number is.

I haven't seen any propaganda shaming anyone. There was an email recently saying talks continue beyond the 90 day window with regards to financials, but I didn't perceive it as bashing the union.

SG