Pet peeves from the ATC folks

[A Squared]

(6) You check in with approach with something like this : "Anytown approach, Airliner 123, one five thousand descending one two thousand, kilo." They respond: "Airliner 123, roger, expect visual two four left, confirm you have kilo." WTF, I just said it.

Yeah, I used to get pissy about this. Not on the air, but privately, to meyself...."Shhhheeeesh, I just said I had Kilo, WTF " Then one day it dawned on me that it happens at about half the frequency that I request verification of a landing clearence that I already got, ask to repeat a frequency assignment, altitude, heading, etc. I realized that it was pretty immature to get bothered by somone else making a pretty harmless mistake that I make frequently myuself.

It doesn't bother me any more.

 

[JohnnyP]

....

When a jet takes off behind us (PHL comes to mind), we're always the ones getting turned off course in the climb, always. I realize they are faster than us, etc, but those jets have a compass and a heading bug, turn them off course to go around the t-props instead of always turning us 90 degrees off course.

 

[A Squared]

When a jet takes off behind us (PHL comes to mind), we're always the ones getting turned off course in the climb, always. I realize they are faster than us, etc, but those jets have a compass and a heading bug, turn them off course to go around the t-props instead of always turning us 90 degrees off course.

the disruption will always be less in the larger picture to turn the slower aircraft being overtaken.

 

[Lostdog65]

I fly a variety of airplanes...some with GPS...some with RNAV (think KNS-80!) and some without. Regardless of whether I file /G or /I, after takeoff and 1000' I get, "Cleared Direct to XYZ". Dude...it's over 150 miles and when I'm /I, the old KNS-80 ain't the greatest! Especially when the needle centers and ATC wonders why I'm 5 degrees off course, headed for Timbuk3! While I'm grateful for Direct, I do live in a mountainous area and sometimes direct, at my climb rates, puts me about 1000' below the top of Mt. Lassen or Mt. Shasta!

And to the guy at OAK Center...lighten up. Take a hint from your buddy who works with the pilots and doesn't force everyone onto an airway or hold him at an altitude that will mean a slam-dunk in a piston twin. Not everybody has turbines and can go to flight idle, descend 2000fpm and hit the 5500 crossing on the BC. You know the terrain...I know the terrain.
And when I ask for lower...there's usually a good reason. The aforementioned slam-dunk or the fact that my boots suck and the ice is growing. When I mention ice along with the "lower"...help me out here man or I'll use the "E" word and make both of our lives miserable!

And to those pilots out there <cough>Skypest<cough> who use "PD" for Pilot's Discretion....get professional boys. You're wearing the bars and hats...act like it. A simple "Discretion to 7" sounds nice, shortens the call and everyone knows what the heck you're talking about. PD sounds like a venereal disease!

Eric

 

[corp_da20_guy]

Just to turn the tables here....


(1) When they are "on the other line" and don't acknowledge you for 5 check ins. Just once I'd like to ignore them for 3 or 4 calls and then come back to them with, "sorry, I was on the other line..." :erm: We get just as busy working 2 separate radios at times and if we miss one radio call they act like we've lost separation with another aircraft.

"

I did that once actually when I was talking on the flight phone. The other pilot had gotten up to use the facilities and the phone rang. Never fails...ATC called after I answered the phone. "N123XX decend and maintain FL370...". I responded..."Say again for N123XX...I was on the land line." The other pilot got back into the cockpit about the same time and started to laugh. I thought it was rather funny!

 

[JohnnyP]

....

A Squared,

Your probably right, but im in denial. A guy can dream, cant he?

 

[Corona]

Third (I know I said two peeves, but I'm on a roll) why do many pilots wait until I spew a whole bunch of approach clearance phraseology before reporting the airport in sight? The situation is this: ATIS reporting VFR weather, ILS and visual approaches to Runway 2 in use. Every aircraft that checks on landing I vector to the localizer. Then, I watch and wait, and timing it just right, I rattle off, "ABC666, 6 miles from DAFIX, turn left heading 050, maintain 3000 til established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 2 approach". The reply is "ABC666, field in sight". So I go back and say "ABC666, cleared visual approach". Can't we just eliminate the middle man, and report the field in sight, save me a little breath? And, to confuse me all the more, why are pilots intent on a visual approach clearance, yet pick up the intercept heading I gave them anyway, and fly the approach all the way to the runway? I mean, I understand flying a stabilized approach and all that, but why not just accept the instrument approach clearance?

Good thread so far...

I can think of one reason pilots do this (as I've been here meself): We are still looking for the airport! Sometimes even large airports are difficult to pick out of the surrounding urban debris, especially if you throw in haze, smoke, scuddy clouds etc, plus other traffic. (Not every Intl. airport looks like LAS!)
This also touches on a pet peeve of mine on ground operations. When you taxi in a low-sitting airplane, ie Turbo Commander, Westwind, Cessna single etc, it is very difficult to see over even a slight rise in the pavement, especially where you have multiple taxiways intersecting. Sometimes you can't even see the signs from that perspective. There's only a few Intl. airports I've been to where this is a problem, but to a controller who is not only familiar with his own airport but also has a bird's-eye view of same, it probably looks like pilots are easily confused and/or are clueless! We ain't (usually); we're just taxiing slow & double-checking the diagram to be sure!

C

 

[MJG]

Here's some ATC gripes that I have with my fellow pilots:

First, when you check in on approach or ground to taxi, tell the poor controller that you have the ATIS. For heaven's sake this will not take you but an extra 2 seconds. News flash here, if you don't tell the poor guy you got atis "XXXX", then he has to break his flow and verify that you have it. Some facilities are more relaxed on this then others but certain ones (NEW YORK TRACON) come to mind as particularly more annoyed when they have to ask a pilot if they have the ATIS.

Second, LISTEN UP !!! I swear some days I just want to bury my head in the sand I'm so embarrassed by my fellow pilot's lack of attention. Granted there are times when the controller calls right in the middle of a checklist or an alarm going off but when the same flight misses one radio call after another it's pathetic. What is going on in that cockpit???

Third, when you are sitting in line for takeoff not moving, turn off you friggin taxi/landing light already. Do you really need to light up the back of my aircraft, the one in front of me and the one in front of him?? I swear the bigger the aircraft type, the worse the offenders.

Now for my controller gripes.

When you call us the wrong flight number, don't get pissed just because I don't reply to your call even though I'm pretty certain it's for us. I realize that you have a ton of data blocks starring you in the face but we have to cover our butts as well. Taking someone else's call could be very bad.

Here's a crossing restriction pet peave: Clearance goes something like this: Indebt 1234, pilot's descretion to maintain flight level 240, then cross 30 north of XYZ at 13000. Can't you just clear us for the one altitude restriction instead of adding a layer of complexity to the situation?? With jet fuel over $2 bucks a gallon, I'm not going to start descending to 240 or 13000 until you make me.

When you're trying to get me to see the aircraft ahead of us on the visual approach, again don't get pissed when I can't see the little bugger. Depending on time of day, weather condtions, terrrain features, etc. 10 miles vis reported on the ATIS doesn't mean we can really see 10 miles.

Ahhh, I feel better now.

But I will say this, having flown in Mexico I'll take our worst controller any day over anyone else in the world.

 

[hyper]

OK, two peeves, having to do with visual approaches.

First, why are so many pilots tacking on "when it helps" reporting the airport in sight? Helps who? I don't get it. If I can immediately clear you for a visual approach, I will. If I can't I won't. Simple as that. Can't you just say "airport in sight"?

Second, what's wrong with actually saying "Airport in sight"? Lots of pilots out there saying "We have the field all the way" (or my real favorite, "field all the way when it helps". All the way to what? I've taken to asking pilots who say that, "Verify field in sight?" And trust me, if anything untoward ever happens, my bosses will bust my chops for accepting that as a report that you have the airport in sight.

Third (I know I said two peeves, but I'm on a roll) why do many pilots wait until I spew a whole bunch of approach clearance phraseology before reporting the airport in sight? The situation is this: ATIS reporting VFR weather, ILS and visual approaches to Runway 2 in use. Every aircraft that checks on landing I vector to the localizer. Then, I watch and wait, and timing it just right, I rattle off, "ABC666, 6 miles from DAFIX, turn left heading 050, maintain 3000 til established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 2 approach". The reply is "ABC666, field in sight". So I go back and say "ABC666, cleared visual approach". Can't we just eliminate the middle man, and report the field in sight, save me a little breath? And, to confuse me all the more, why are pilots intent on a visual approach clearance, yet pick up the intercept heading I gave them anyway, and fly the approach all the way to the runway? I mean, I understand flying a stabilized approach and all that, but why not just accept the instrument approach clearance?

Dog's on, I'm going to go watch TV.... :laugh:

Well, "when it helps" is more of a consideration to you guys. Much like "ready in sequence" is a consideration to you and the 2 guys across the r/w from me that I'm not being pushy or expect a t/o clearance right now. I'm just letting you know that I'm ready when you are and am "in line". When I call the field 25-30 miles out "when it helps", I'm conveying that I'm not expecting that you'll clear me just yet or being a d1ck about it, just lettin' ya know I'm ready when you are, a consideration. Otherwise I'll forget to tell you, have you call the app. clearance and then you get mad when i tell you it's in sight.

 

[dhc8fo]

What's with pilots that say "I have the numbers?" No, obviously you don't or you would say which ATIS (Victor, Bravo, etc..) you have.

Sometimes I forget WHICH ATIS I got and can't find it on my scribbles so rather than waste all of our time stopping and looking for it, I just say numbers. It isn't my habit, but I have done it and this is why.