Pentagon to triple the number of drones

Rez O. Lewshun

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The NRA? What does this video have to do with the NRA? Marketing and packaging patriotism of only a certain flavor? Specific to certain group? How many American flags do I need on my car before you approve?

Nothing more simplistic than a demanding Col Jessup "I just assume you say thank you and be on your way".

So much for the ignore list?
 

splatt

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Some of those innocent civilians were definitely bad guys. The whole point of this war is we are fighting them over there rather than over here. People don't seem to get that. War has changed. The bad guys use civilians as sheilds, don't wear uniforms, emerge from ordinary homes to kill us and melt back into the hoi polloi. This causes the news to say civilians were killed when in actuality it was the bad guys wearing civilian clothes.
 
C

CFIIer

It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.
It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.

It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.

It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Charles Michael Province, U.S. Army


I'm not Army (Air Force actually), but the point is made...
 

C40_Pilot

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Great Discussion

Thomas Jefferson said:

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty"

Like it or not, our country needs the "Rez's" of the world.

I'll chime in with my .02 on some of Rez's thoughts:

1. On 9/11 our civilians were killed, now years later Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraqi civilians are being killed, is that okay? I think we would all agree that, no it isn't okay. Not one of us wants to kill a father or a mother or a son or a daughter. Do we do everything in our power to ensure the use of lethal force is justified, yes I think we do. I would like to believe that when a UAV operator releases a weapon, he is taking as much care to ensure the protection of the lives of the innocent on the ground as if he were over anywhere, USA releasing the weapon. Do civilians end up as casualties to bad bombs, bad intel, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, yes and we don't high five each other when it happens.

2. Rez has gone on about how we have killed innocent civilians and is it "justified"? He even used the example about terrorists killing his family and calling it justified. Maybe there is confusion between civilian deaths as a result of our prosecution of the war and GI's on the ground plinking civilians. I would bet that the ROE don't allow the plinking of civilians. But I think, under the guise of legal warfare, that civilian casualties aren't wanted, sought after, desired, but a result of what our leaders have authorized us as soldiers to do. Is it justified, yes it is. Is walking into your home and killing your family justified, no it isn't and that isn't what we are doing either.

3. When does it all end? Good question. I don't think we, as a nation encourage war. You may disagree based on our foreign policy, world attitude, yada yada. But it kinda sucked for the Kuwaitis when they were invaded by Iraq. We were there to liberate them. Kinda sucked for some airline passengers, building workers, and american citizens about 10 years ago. Now we are attempting to ensure when your wife and family go visit grandma, they have a safe, free country to do it in. Some in this country haven't, and the men and women on this board are doing it to protect your wife and kids, and I speak for all of us saying that we'd be willing to die for the freedom of your wife and kids to go see grandma, on a plane, and not worry about being blown up. When will it end, good one, go ask UBL.

4. Killing civilians creates more terrorists. Truthfully, maybe it does, but as mentioned above, we don't want to kill civilians as much as we don't want to have to be at war with Al Qaeda and Taliban. We can't control that. I think our attempt is to help those children come to the realization that being a terrorist won't bring them as much happiness in their life as being regular joe citizen.

5. Iraq war was a sham. No it wasn't. Your elected leaders acted on the information they had. Your elected leaders decided with a majority vote to invade Iraq and look for WMDs. We didn't find any and for some reason that absence has allowed people like you to opine that the war and invasion was a sham. For some strange reason, people like Rez seem to think us GIs are so blood thirsty we just couldn't wait to start the killing machine. The lady in my neighborhood, yeah that one, with the dog and 4 year old son, who lost their husband/dad during the war, they don't have "kill an Iraqi for mommy" tattoos. This war cost us, the American people, significantly. Is/was the war a sham, no it never was. Did we find WMDs? No, unfortunately, but you can't use your "I'm a lot smarter than the rest of you" attitude combined with the 9 years of post 9/11 info and stand on your alter of it was a sham.

6. Leaders in DC. Don't get me started either. But we live here, we vote for them, if you don't like it, move to Iraq, they're setting up a new government, go help them.

Peace.
 

Birdstrike

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Geez, I see Rez has spewed his sack over here now. He or she's been owned too many times on the Non-Av board and now he appears to like hanging out with the title 10 guys. One thing you'll find is that you'll waste your time trying to correct Rez's pacifest views. Rez has been outed as an avowed Socialist who frequently cuts and pastes from numerous red web sites and only knows how to answer a question with a question. I believe Rez's identity is also female but that's unconfirmed. At any rate, he/she is a world class baiter and is incapable of learning anything after being schooled. When owned, he/she ducks out, waits, then reappears with new flame-baiting and reels somebody else in into a fruitless discussion. Many on the Non-Av site have resorted to the ignore toggle just to zero it out. You'll get nowhere if you engage. Supreme military-envy suspected at root here.
 
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Rez O. Lewshun

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Geez, I see Rez has spewed his sack over here now. He or she's been owned too many times on the Non-Av board and now he appears to like hanging out with the title 10 guys. One thing you'll find is that you'll waste your time trying to correct Rez's pacifest views. Rez has been outed as an avowed Socialist who frequently cuts and pastes from numerous red web sites and only knows how to answer a question with a question. I believe Rez's identity is also female but that's unconfirmed. At any rate, he/she is a world class baiter and is incapable of learning anything after being schooled. When owned, he/she ducks out, waits, then reappears with new flame-baiting and reels somebody else in into a fruitless discussion. Many on the Non-Av site have resorted to the ignore toggle just to zero it out. You'll get nowhere if you engage. Supreme military-envy suspected at root here.
Bored? Why not go to church to find the strength to go bomb some civilians..... am I sure there is scripture you quote that justifies iron bombs raining down on evil doers..... including the five year olds....
 

acpilot

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"Bored? Why not go to church to find the strength to go bomb some civilians..... am I sure there is scripture you quote that justifies iron bombs raining down on evil doers..... including the five year olds...."

People stop paying attention to you and you pull a stunt like this! You really have no shame. I feel sorry for you Rez. You are truly a defective human being...

...and this is coming from a non-church goer.
 

Mamma

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So we don't question.... questionable acts by our own govt? How do we self correct? How do we ensure that what we are doing is proper and moral?.... if we never question......
Your problem is you don't listen to the answers and you do not understand the situation. Sure you present correct facts but they do not convey the entire picture of the reality. The articles you posted did not show the whole picture. Here is an example to convey my point: A paper prints that several men ran into a building and shot 6 people dead including a child. But then you do your homework and find out that the shooters were policeman and they were raiding a house full violent bank robbers who had numerous hostages. The child had a gun and was firing it.

You bring up great topics that need to be discussed but then you disrespect those you are trying to have the discussion with. Just read this thread and see the hostility you instigated. You need to know your audience. You cannot come over to the military forum and call us murderers and expect an honest and clear debate on the issues. There were several ways to intelligently bring up your issues and have a mature discussion but you chose to fan the fire on a delicate situation and piss off JungleJett. JJ has a lot of insight into what is going on and I think if you respectfully engage him I think you might both share a lot in common instead of the thread degeneration we have all read here.
 

mesaserf

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Some food for thought.

C40 You say the invasion of Iraq was justified by our elected leaders because they "believed" Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

Then why have we not invaded North Korea?

They have shown that they now possess weapons grade materials and have detonated an atomic bomb.

They have stock piles of nerve gas and other agents that are the definition of WMD's. Defectors from the North Korean military have given testimony that they tested these chemical weapons on political prisoners.

While we spend blood and treasure in Iraq and Afghanistan millions of people in North Korea suffer under the iron fist of one of the worst governments in the world. So again... Why have we not invaded?

Could it be that North Korea does not have oil?

I'll tell you this much, if the current pressure being put on the Iranian government fails to bring about regime change I guarantee we will use the military option. Royal Dutch Shell and BP have lusted after those oil reserves ever since the Shaw was ousted in the late 70's. But first we will have to get Iraq and Afghanistan out of the news. The sham coalition government in Iraq will be declared a victory and the Afghan people will again be abandoned to their fate after the new gas pipe line is completed from the Caspian.

It may even take another terrorist event (God I hope not!) to jump start this thing. And when that happens will you just carry on business as usual in your basement office in the Pentagon?

Well... I guess no one will have to worry about accountability for war crimes since they set legal president with the Bush memos on torture. All you have to do now is say that you acted under orders.

Nuremberg was for nothing after all...

And the corporate media talking heads kept on... and on....and on......
 
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JungleJett

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Every time someone brings up the "oil" argument, I just have to laugh.....and feel sorry for their ignorance.


set legal president
....go back and correct your post.
 

ableone

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He is actually quite correct.

A foreign policy that dictates we invade every nation that threatens to develop WMDs is both ill advised and completely unworkable.

Even had Iraq possessed WMDs the invasion was a poor strategic decision for the United Stantes.
 

mesaserf

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If that was food for thought, I am still hungry. Your rant on conspiracies, evil corporations were amusing as is your ignorance on the N Korea situation.


Ignorance? OK then give me some help. Why have we not invaded North Korea?

Are we afraid of them? Would we be up against the Chinese?

Oil has nothing to do with it? Why not?

Please do not just ignore the questions. Give me your opinion and I may just stand corrected.
 
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