No "huge payraise" planned for Options pilots

Honorstudent

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My guess is when RH isn't manning the WL19 poster position it is none other than KR or perhaps JW maybe DF. Whomever it doesn't matter because on December 15th the Flight Options and Flexjet pilots will both be members of the same Union. The IBT 1108. Don't make the same mistake the RTA PILOTS MADE by giving this management a chance!
Say Yes and VOTE YES for the IBT1108!!!!
 

warlord19

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Uh children, I urge you to file a lawsuit charging management at Flexjet of using my account(WL) to further their(managements) position....that is a crime and NJ management got in trouble for doing it. You have the right and OBLIGATION to file a suite if you think that is what is going on. So let's put your money where your mouths are and get a lawsuit going....i'm sure your masters will back you 100%.
WL
 

D_G

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Congratulations on becoming a Teamster! Management dweebs learn quick that they aren't ALL POWERFUL warlords. Its nice watching them learn to.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Uh children, I urge you to file a lawsuit charging management at Flexjet of using my account(WL) to further their(managements) position....that is a crime and NJ management got in trouble for doing it. You have the right and OBLIGATION to file a suite if you think that is what is going on. So let's put your money where your mouths are and get a lawsuit going....i'm sure your masters will back you 100%.
WL
The law suit(e) can wait. The next pressing thing is what to do now that you and Denise Flower-ian can't figure out what to do about the "unhappy" transfer pilots at Flex that want to return to Options.
 

D_G

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deleted, cant figure out how to post picture
 
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fischman

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I have a few comments I made in red.

fischman:

You ?outgrew? the IBT because ya?ll eventually figured out what they were all about.

You wrote a very excellent post and deserve a reply. I agree with your first 2 points.

1). You will make more money?ALPA proved that long ago, and NJ more recently. But the ultimate arbiter is the marketplace and what the market will bear. A union puts pressure on management to get the best pay, and that is good. Not correct. The market will pay a non-union pilot market prices. A union pilot gets paid what the company can afford and is collectively negotiated. In other words, union pilots are paid above market wages. For example, if NJ's TA passes, we will have Phenom pilots at over $200k. Show me a non-union shop ANYWHERE that will pay a Phenom pilot that.

2). I?ve never personally need a union, but agree with your points. That's because you're management.

3). As far as this goes, I?ve never been pressured to fly when it is unsafe to go, neither at Flex or DAC. Both of these places emphasize safety and apparently realize the impact an accident would have on the company. I have NO problem telling pac?s or dispatch that we can?t go because of safety concerns. Never had any negative feedback either. Most folks appreciate good judgment.

So again, VOTE NO and get rid of this despicable culture-destroying IBT , IMPROVE your and your families lives next year with market wages, and enjoy the day. How do you expect them to improve their lives without a union? Are you, out of the generosity of your heart, going to give them better and fair work rules, raises, benefits, and upgrades in seniority order? I don't think so. The ONLY way to guarantee that is to vote in a union and put boots to pavement.

Again. These are YOUR pilots. Why do you think so terribly of them? Like I stated earlier, the IBT has very little to do with your local. It is the LOCAL ELECTED LEADERS and VOLUNTEERS that run the union. The union isn't the IBT. The union is YOUR PILOTS. So I ask you again, why do you speak so terribly about your crews? Knowing you are management and how little you think of your own people would be enough for me to vote yes.
Let's be clear: YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME. We outgrew the IBT means exactly that. We were sending 25% of our dues to IBT national and realized we had enough dues income with 2700 pilots that we didn't require IBT's support. Don't put words into my mouth to add spin to your argument.

As far as #3 goes: Good for you. I'm in a union and have had to call stewards on multiple occasions to protect myself when I set the parking brake. If not for the union I would have been disciplined or fired for doing what I thought was safe and right. As a matter of fact, Santulli would use the union as a selling point to the passengers because we knew that we would have union representation and felt secure to ALWAYS take the safest course of action. THAT is the best reason to vote in a union. That, and, you'll get more money.
 
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warlord19

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realityman: You funny guy. I didn’t know you had a tractor-trailer truck tooting it’s horn and everything at one of your recent pickets. What a great idea. Rumour has it we got 27 calls from NJ owners the next day wanting to change providers…guess they didn’t appreciate the toots as much as you, but I would encourage you to continue this practice.

GC: I don’t so much defend management behavior as much as explain why the anachronistic, belligerent, archaic, uncivil, etc IBT is such a POS, that it has torn our culture apart at Flex, and will cause our company huge grief if it comes on property.. I am pro-business and wish to work with management as opposed to demonizing them, calling them Hitlers, and other such things the IBT lemmings do most every day.

fischman: You might want to check the pay of the Lear45 drivers at Wal-Mart…rumor has it they are not unionized.
Also, I would ask you this. Do you simply believe that all line-pilots think alike and that 100% of them think a union is mandatory? I can attest there are a whole bunch who hate and detest this IBT POS as much as I do, hopefully a majority. You’re simple-minded if you think other-wise.


If there are any non-voters left, I would urge you to vote soon. Not doing so is irresponsible.

At Flex, we recently had our most private data breached by “someone” who then gave it to NJASAP, who then did a mass propaganda mailing to Flex pilots. It is this kind of IBT-inspired illegal and egregous behavior you can expect IF the IBT infests Flex.

Anyone with eyes and basic common sense can figure out why NJASAP wants us to vote in the IBT…it is such a huge drag on any company they infest, and would give our most direct competitors, NJ, a huge selling point when trying to sell shares.

So, Be SMART! You have a chance to vote yourself all the benefits and equal wages Flex now enjoys. Do it for your family and yourself.

VOTE NO!!!
WL
 

fischman

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fischman: You might want to check the pay of the Lear45 drivers at Wal-Mart?rumor has it they are not unionized.
Also, I would ask you this. Do you simply believe that all line-pilots think alike and that 100% of them think a union is mandatory? I can attest there are a whole bunch who hate and detest this IBT POS as much as I do, hopefully a majority. You?re simple-minded if you think other-wise.
You may want to check the work rules at Wal-Mart! You never answered my questions. Typical of union busting management types.

$50 says you won't answer them.
 

Bjtdrvr

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Ha! All they needed was a name list then they could search Faa.gov to their hearts content to find out the addresses! Again more reteric to try to discredit an organization that has actually helped the FO side by obtaining a GOOD first contract!!!!! The only person who has been caught lying to the Flex pilots is KR! Perhaps you want to work for him without a contract but about 90 percent of the FO pilots DO NOT!!! You do have the ten percent who will step on their coworkers back to get ahead! Again who was it that said there will be no changes? Who fired DW? You say that the Teamsters demonized her? The Teamsters did not have to do ANYTHING except wait for K to show his true colors! You can say all you want but I will keep pointing out actual provable facts. History not conjecture or hyperbole! We received on average about 36 percent raise over 5 years during what some are calling the worst economic downturn in history! Facts! So would I rather give some money to an organization that has had some personnel with issues in the past versus a person who actually has fired 8 people completely illegally and who has made tons of promises and broken them who has reneged on your contract that he wrote? To put it into current vernacular, You Betcha!!!!!!
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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WL"At Flex, we recently had our most private data breached by “someone” .
It's one big conspiracy and you exposed it! Now you can put on your foil hat and go back to your padded room.
 

doh

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NJASAP didn't even need to be handed a list of names. Every Flexjet pilot wears an easily identifiable uniform, wings and tie that say Flexjet, and a name tag! There was no private data and no "illegal" breach. The only "illegal" act committed was the ILLEGAL FIRING OF THREE UNION ORGANIZERS. Warlord and the yammer pukes can drama queen this all they want, but they will never file any legal action for data breach. It didn't happen.
 

warlord19

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For ANY non-voters out there:

Today is it. If you don’t cast your vote today, you can’t complain about the outcome.

Use your head when you do vote. HELP yourselves and your family (if you are FO) by raising all your pay and benefits to our (Flex) level and help begin to re-establish a culture of mutual respect and cooperation that the UNCIVIL IBT and its lackeys have destroyed.

VOTE NO!!!!
WL
 
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Kind of funny.. but ignorant as well, wake the hell up xbox playing warlord goofball management puke, management will never respect pilots, never. Unions are a must to gain professional pilot pay and work rules.
 

ghostrider64

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Warwussy....you lose,time to quit...we await your public announcement of applying to work at wheelsup...
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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The OneSky management surrogates who are whispering this into our ears are trying to snow us, big time. Kenn has already made it crystal clear, in his video, and also in practice with the transfers, what he considers "fair and equitable". In a rehash of the old "slide to poverty" scheme, Options pilots will slide over to the Flex payscale AT THEIR CURRENT RATE. For example, a 14 year small cabin Capt. at Options will enter the new payscale at the 7year Flex rate. Don't take my word for it, do your own research and learn. I't's a lose-lose scenario for us; if OneSky wins the election, it's "slide to poverty", no significant payraise. If the 1108 wins, OneSky will of course punish the pilots by withholding any raise and blame the Union as they always do. At least we get to negotiate for higher pay if the 1108 wins, with a CBA in 9 months or it goes to arbritration, which OneSky doesn't want. If OneSky wins, we are just plain out of luck.
Good thing 1108 won. And now, the company has already started a whisper campaign with the motto "there goes our raise." If we really would have got an industry leading raise if we voted out the union, why can't we still get an industry leading raise with the union? Time will reveal the truth.
 

realityman

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Good thing 1108 won. And now, the company has already started a whisper campaign with the motto "there goes our raise." If we really would have got an industry leading raise if we voted out the union, why can't we still get an industry leading raise with the union? Time will reveal the truth.
Bingo!

If KR really meant to keep all his promises, there is NOTHING stopping him from doing it with a unionized group.

Unless, of course, he never really meant it *GASP!*. In which case he will have demonstrated exactly why you needed a union in the first place.
 

CA1900

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Good thing 1108 won. And now, the company has already started a whisper campaign with the motto "there goes our raise."
I went through this at my last company when we had our first union drive. "Don't bring in outsiders," they said. "We won't be able to improve the pay if you unionize." And my personal favorite, "We'll have to give up our bidding system and switch to something else if you unionize." (WTF?)

There were grand promises of "working with management," pay raises, and suggestions of an in-house "mutual interest committee" to supposedly represent the pilots. Enough pilots bought into it that the vote failed by just a few percentage points.

What happened afterwards? You can probably guess. There was no pay raise. There was no "mutual interest committee" because there was no mutual interest in anything we wanted to improve. And almost immediately after the vote failed, health care premiums went from $0 (which was somewhat offsetting the low pay) to a substantial portion of it.

In short, the whisper campaigns are there to undermine your solidarity, and to get pilots to believe that the union is a hindrance to your interests rather than your means to achieve them. They want you to get fed up with your union and vote it back out. Don't fall for it.

Management will go through their stages of grief before you'll make much headway. They're probably at "anger" right now. Once they finally realize the union isn't going anywhere, they'll hit "acceptance" and you'll be able to make headway. Until then, stay strong, and listen to your local leadership.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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NJASAP didn't even need to be handed a list of names. Every Flexjet pilot wears an easily identifiable uniform, wings and tie that say Flexjet, and a name tag! There was no private data and no "illegal" breach. The only "illegal" act committed was the ILLEGAL FIRING OF THREE UNION ORGANIZERS. Warlord and the yammer pukes can drama queen this all they want, but they will never file any legal action for data breach. It didn't happen.
It was only a matter of time until the truth came out on this one. The company pretended they were so outraged at the "data breach" that they were going to pull out all of the stops to find the culprit. Turns out it was D. D....s and M. S.......o themselves. In their deposition, they admitted information was released thru their lawyers. Then they claimed it was the UNION's fault. They must think we are fools.
 
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