New Stoploss Message

RMI

senior stop-lossee
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Check out the www.afpc.randolph.af.mil website. No pilot AFSC exempted.

T-38 Dude, I don't know what base you were at, but our wing king doesn't want to play the waiver game. Won't stop me from doin' the waiver process, but not much hope on this end.

Next review in 60 days
 

Fridge

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Anybody really suprised??? I think we are going to be in this for the long haul....

Any idea what any of those officer AFSC's were??

Fridge
 

deej

Member
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Nov 26, 2001
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Most of the AFSC's were medical,spaceand... oh yea, Historian, the Air Force sure needed to stop all the historians from getting out, that would have been a major catastrophe. This just a trumpped up way for the Air Force to solve its retention problem by force. There is no manning shortage, and no other services have such a widespread stop loss. Write your Congressman and Senators and see if we can fix this.
 

T-38Dude

Member
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Hey RMI,

Sorry your wing king is not being supportive. I was lucky. My wing/cc was more than glad to grant a waiver recommendation. Guess he is just a real good dude. So far i know of three folks approved from my base (Sheppard) and two more waiting for results from the AETC/CC (All of us T-38 and T-38 IFF guys). I also know of a F15C guy (AlbieF15) who got a waiver as well. Probably not much you can do if your cc doesn't want to help. Sorry. I wish you the best and hopefully this will end soon. Good luck.

T-38 Dude
 

Mil-BushPilot

Active member
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I think your chance for a waiver is best when you are transitioning to another form of military life- i.e. guard/ reserve. The just get out waivers- not so good.

Mil-BushPilot
 

ATKTK

Active member
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Curious where the 60 day review info came from. I skimmed over the message but couldn't find anything indicating when to expect the next update. Is this rumor or did someone in the know pass this along?

Had a three star visit our base not too long ago and indicated Stop Loss will be around for some time still. He spoke briefly about the news report which indicated 82% of the waivers are being approved. He said this is not the case within ACC. Less than half have been approved and only those with a true hardship are being approved. The high number (82%) is because the "non-war fighters" are being let go. According to him, if you're a pilot in ACC, you're here for the duration. What that duration is, is still TBD.:confused:
 

SentryIP

Better lucky than good!
Joined
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STOP LOSS Message

ATKTK,

The 60-Day review is in this message from the AF/DP in paragraph 2. I submitted another retirement application two weeks ago and it's in the wickets. I'm sure it'll be approved pending the end of STOP LOSS. Best wishes to all.

FIRST...FLY THE AIRCRAFT !
SentryIP
volamus@icqmail.com

===============================

From: AF/DP - Deputy Chief of Staff/Personnel
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:35 PM
To: CC(n); CV(n); DO(n); DP(n); HC(n); HO(n); IG(n); IL(n); JA(n);
PA(n); RE(n); SC(n); SE(n); SG(n); XO(n); XP(n); CC(n);
dda:ACP-PLAD=ALMAJCOM////CV//DP////; HQDCANG(n); ALPERSCOM; FM(n);
PA(n); AQ(n); LL(n)
Cc: DPF(n)
Subject: Stop Loss Review Update #2
Importance: Low



UNCLAS

1. FOLLOWING AN IN-DEPTH REVIEW BY MAJCOMS, AIR RESERVE COMPONENTS, AND FUNCTIONALS, THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE FOR MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS, PPROVED THE RELEASE FROM STOP LOSS OF 24 OFFICER AND 40 ENLISTED AFSCS. A NUMBER OF FACTORS WENT INTO THIS DECISION, TO INCLUDE ONGOING AND FUTURE AEF REQUIREMENTS, OPERATIONS NOBLE EAGLE AND ENDURING FREEDOM HOMELAND DEFENSE NEEDS FOR THE NEW STEADY STATE ENVIRONMENT, AND AIR RESERVE COMPONENT MOBILIZATION.

2. THOUGH WE REMAIN FOCUSED ON ENSURING OUR FORCE CAN MEET ITS ONE/OEF REQUIREMENTS, WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT WE MUST BEGIN TO RETURN THE TOTAL FORCE TO A MORE NORMAL STATE. THE GRADUAL RELEASE OF AFSCS PUTS US ON THAT GLIDE SLOPE. SINCE THIS IS A VERY DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT, WE WILL CONTINUE TO REVIEW THE STOP LOSS PROGRAM EVERY 60 DAYS AND MAKE ADJUSTMENTS ACCORDINGLY. IF WORLD EVENTS CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY, WE WILL RE-EVALUATE STOP LOSS DECISIONS IMMEDIATELY.

3. ACTIVE AND RESERVE COMPONENT MEMBERS, NOT MOBILIZED OR DEPLOYED, IN THE FOLLOWING DESIGNATED AFSCS AND WHO HAVE AN APPROVED ETS/DOS/DOR MAY BE ALLOWED TO SEPARATE/RETIRE NET 1 MAR 02. SERVICING MPFS WILL CONTACT AFFECTED MEMBERS TO REVIEW THEIR OPTIONS AND SELECT A DEPARTURE DATE. THOSE PERSONNEL WHO HAVE AN AFSC ON THE RELEASE LIST, BUT ARE DEPLOYED OR MOBILIZED, TO INCLUDE RESERVE COMPONENT MEMBERS ACTIVATED IN-PLACE, WILL BE ALLOWED TO SELECT A SEPARATION DATE NET 30 DAYS AFTER RETURN FROM DEPLOYMENT, DEMOBILIZATION OR DEACTIVATION. MEMBERS RELEASED FROM STOP LOSS WILL BE AFFORDED SUFFICIENT TRANSITION TIME, INCLUDING TIME TO COMPLETE NECESSARY TRAVEL, COMPLETE MEDICAL EVALUATION IF REQUIRED, AND USE ACCRUED LEAVE IF DESIRED BY THE MEMBER. COMMANDERS OF MOBILIZED/ACTIVATED RESERVE
COMPONENT MEMBERS WITH THE SPECIFIED AFSCS, WHO ARE OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE FOR SEPARATION OR RETIREMENT AND WHO HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED, SHOULD GIVE CONSIDERATION TO REQUESTING THEIR DEACTIVATION UPON RETURN FROM DEPLOYMENT.

3A. OFFICER: THE FOLLOWING OFFICER AFSCS WILL BE RELEASED FROM STOP LOSS AS DESCRIBED ABOVE - 13S, 21A, 21M, 21S, 35B, 36P, 38M, 42B, 42E, 43A, 43D, 43M, 44D, 44H, 44J, 44Z, 46G, 47B, 47D, 48E, 65A, 65F, 65W AND 84H.

3B. ENLISTED: THE FOLLOWING ENLISTED AFSCS WILL BE RELEASED FROM STOP LOSS AS DESCRIBED ABOVE - 1C6XX, 1S0XX, 1T0X1, 2A000, 2A0X1, 2A1X1, 2A1X2, 2A1X3, 2A300, 2A3X1, 2A3X2, 2A3X3, 2A4X1, 2A4X2, 2A5X3, 2A6X3, 2A7X4, 2M0XX, 2P0XX, 2R0XX, 2R1XX, 2T3X5, 2T3X7, 2W0XX, 2W1XX, 2W2XX, 3A0XX, 3C0X2, 3C3X1, 3H0XX, 3N0XX, 3N1XX, 3N2XX, 3U0XX, 4J0XX, 6FXXX, 8FXXX, 8M0XX, 9DXXX AND 9E000.

4. IN ADDITION, ACTIVE DUTY LINE OFFICERS WHO ARE TWICE-DEFERRED FOR PROMOTION AND HAVE NOT BEEN OFFERED CONTINUATION, WHO ARE NOT DEPLOYED, ARE RELEASED FROM STOP LOSS. OFFICERS WHO MEET THESE CRITERIA BUT ARE CURRENTLY DEPLOYED ARE RELEASED FROM STOP-LOSS UPON RETURN TO HOME STATION FROM DEPLOYMENT. OFFICERS SUBJECT TO THIS PARAGRAPH WILL BE SEPARATED ON THEIR
MANDATORY DOS/DOR, EXCEPT THAT OFFICERS WHOSE DOD/DOR FALLS BEFORE 31 JUL 2002, OR WITHIN 150 DAYS OF RETURN TO HOME STATION FROM DEPLOYMENT, WILL BE PERMITTED TO ESTABLISH A NEW DOS/DOR SO AS TO AFFORD THE OFFICER 150 DAYS TRANSITION TIME.

5. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT PERSONNEL REMAINING UNDER STOP LOSS MAY CONTINUE TO APPLY FOR SEPARATION/RETIREMENT THROUGH THE WAIVER PROCESS. IN
ADDITION, STRONG CONSIDERATION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO WAIVER REQUESTS FROM HYT PERSONNEL.

6. IMPLEMENTATION INSTRUCTIONS AND DETAILED GUIDANCE FROM AFPC, AFR AND NGB WILL FOLLOW. MY THANKS TO ALL FOR MAKING THIS PROCESS WORK. POCS ARE LT COL JAN MIDDLETON (AF/DPFMP), DSN 225-4679, LT COL RICH BINGER (AFPC/DPPRS), DSN 665- 2792 AND MSGT MIKE POTTER (AFPC/DPPRS), DSN 665-2374.
 

DHPope93

I do all my own stunts
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0% here

The 82% number is indeed a joke. Of the 3 cases I know of here, 0/3 on waivers at the Wing level. 1 KC-135 dude trying to get to his SWA job, and 2 C-17'ers (1 with a Reserve job in hand). Don't know if any Fred drivers have put in for it. 2 more tanker dudes are going to put in for waivers, both with Guard/Reserve jobs awaiting them. Rumor is that a higher-up in the base MPF said, "If we let one of them out, we'll have to let them all out."


Peace,
DP
 

ATKTK

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Sentry
Thanks for the info. I guess we'll just play the wait and see game. I'm trying to stay positive, but this isn't how I envisioned my retirement days. I thought my deployment days were behind me. Maybe not. The one thing I've learned from all this is, never say never.;)
 

SentryIP

Better lucky than good!
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STOP LOSS Waivers

Hey All,

The only folks here who have been given waivers at the base where I'm stationed are those leaving active duty for Guard or Reserve duty. Oherwise, no waivers. Stay positive...it's the best thing to do right now!

FIRST...FLY THE AIRCRAFT!
SentryIP
volamus@icqmail.com
 

Mil-BushPilot

Active member
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Nov 27, 2001
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How does this DOS process work these days. Can you no longer request DOS 6 months prior? Is it straight to the DOS waiver request at 6 months prior? How about people overseas with a DEROS? I know--I need to call AFPC Stop-Loss info people probably.

Mil-BushPilot
 

FL510GV

Junior Birdman
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Dec 6, 2001
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Deros/DOS

I am in the DEROS/DOS situation -- here's the way that I understand it... not gospel, but info from my CC and AFPC.

1. If I want to set a DOS, I can do it at any time (6 mo rule applies)
2. If I want to wait and 7 day opt my assignment, I set my DOS at that time (4 mo rule applies).
3. If I get to my DOS and stop loss hasn't sorted itself out or I haven't been approved a waiver, my commander can involuntarily extend my DEROS up to 180 days (and subsequently my DOS) or I can be sent to the base closest to my home of record (or the base of my choice) and be sent TDY (from there) indefinately until stop loss is done - yikes! or I can apply to get same/similar assignment as the one that I 7 day opted (or a Predator).

All that being said, it doesn't look good for getting out right now. If your CC is not sympathetic, you have no chance; but, the guys that I know of who have been successful did have at least a letter of intent from a AFRES/ANG unit.

Working in my favor for a waiver approval -- I am a must move (DEROS) and my replacement is already programmed, etc., and I am in an aircraft that is not mission critical to the war effort.

Good Luck...

(I wonder if a letter of intent from FedEx will help my waiver request?)
 

zman300

Well-known member
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Feb 11, 2002
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?
The 82% is indeed a crock. Guess why? Reservists submitting stop-loss waivers to come back to active duty are included in that 82%! At least that's what I was told by our Wing exec.

I'm stuck here in beautiful northern MS, waiting to start with Exec Jet Intl, in a unit 120% over-manned because we're "under-manned." I was warned not to submit a waiver because if my argument is that I'm not needed here because of the over-manning, then maybe I'd be sent back to the C-5, where pilots ARE needed. Of course, it kinda made me wonder how desperate the C-5 need is, since we just got two C-5 pilots into our 120% manned squadron! The logic of our idiotic commanders baffles me.

Of course, I could get a Reserve command post job somewhere, and since I'll be part of the "Total Force," my waiver would likely be approved. I'd be real useful then. ARGH! Sorry; I'm pissed...
 

zulua320

Nothing Special
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Nov 26, 2001
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Just curious -- are any of the guys getting denied a waiver after being approved by the wing commander? My waiver was signed off by the group/CC (we don't have a wing here in Army-land) and now I'm being told to wait 4-6 WEEKS for ACC to approve/deny. It's not like I've got a life to get on with or anything. :mad:

Z
 

RMI

senior stop-lossee
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Z,

Your question assumes we were able to get our waivers off-base. We have had them sent back time and again for so many pencil-necked, common sense deprived, nit-noid, administrative holding reasons that none of them have even made it off the base. If they ever do, then maybe I'll know how to answer your question.
 

zulua320

Nothing Special
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
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RMI,
What are they being sent back for? -- the Stop Loss message specifically states that waiver requests MUST be forwarded regardless of whether the leadership concurrs or not.
If they're dragging their feet with administrative queep then you may have grounds for an IG and/or Congressional inquiry.

Z
 

RMI

senior stop-lossee
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Posts
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Well, let's see. Needs to be on Air Force letter-head, want a cover letter to detail and outline the reasons for wanting to get out, cover letter needs to be on AF letter-head, want waiver request and cover letter to be reviewed by ops group commander before it goes to wing, want letter and waiver request to be reviewed by deputy ops group commander before being seen by ops group commander, need to re-write cover letter to indicate routing (X2), need to change "reviewed" to "approved/disapproved" by signature blocks, second page of cover letter (created to indicate routing) shouldn't have AF letter-head on it, etc..........and the beatings will continue until you give up. The list is incomplete since nothing has actually made it off base yet.

Oh, yeah and the letter has to be held for a couple of days to a week each time before it is returned for "correction".
 

AlbieF15

F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
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RMI,

Where are you stationed? That does reek of a potential IG problem.

Keep the faith and good luck. Its already on the boards, but if you can find someone to "pull" like an ANG or Res unit, you will have a much better chance. Zulu knows of some non-flying type jobs...maybe he can help you.

Good luck and keep the faith.

Albie
 

Finster

Member
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Dec 11, 2001
Posts
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Albie,

What did your guard unit do to 'pull' in the waiver process. I just put in a waiver letter, and my future guard unit is interested in helping me out, but not sure what exactly to do.

RMI,
My SQ/CC signed my waiver letter and it is going via admin routing to the OG/CC and then to the WG/CC then ACC- no cover letter (the waiver letter says everything a cover letter would say anyway). I just did this last week so it hasn't made it off base yet, but I don't anticipate nearly the hastle you are encountering- Hopefully.


Finster
 
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