Need help persuading my boss!

HMR

I Live by the River.
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Posts
1,048
Total Time
100+
My boss has been looking for a new plane for the past 4 months. He wants a twin cessna (340, 414, or 421). His plan is to fly it for a year and buy a King Air C90. Last week our board of directors informed us that the company's profits and travel needs are growing faster than expected. They want to get the C90 now (yahoo!). Neither of us have ever flown one and he's conviced that a C90 would be too hard for us to fly.
I'd like to hear from any of you with C90 experience. Are they any harder to fly than a 414 (a plane we're both comfortable in)? I have 1200tt/400multi. My boss has about the same and we'd both be required to attend Flight Safety.

Thanks,
HMR
 

AWACoff

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
1,121
Total Time
3000
From everything I have heard, King Airs are "easy" to fly and a total pilots' plane. I'm pretty sure the 414 is bigger PITA than a C90. If the BOD is willing to spend $$$ for a C90, it's the way to go.
 

Wiggums

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
1,040
Total Time
.
Show your boss the difference between the safety record for turbine vs. piston twins. If you lose an engine you'd be better off in the King Air.
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
The B model is the one with four blades, and a nice airplane to fly. Systems aren't hard, either. I was able to teach them to a friend in three days, using the Flightsafety manual as my text.

You're really going to enjoy flying this airplane.
 

bobbysamd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
5,710
Total Time
4565
King Air

For what it's worth, I have one hour in C90s. If this is any guide at all, it flew very much like an A36 Bonanza and B55 and B58 Barons. I have about 300 hours total split between the latter three aircraft.

You will have no problem flying the King Air and FlightSafety's training will be an added plus.
 

Draginass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
1,852
Total Time
5000+
Pretty benign airplane. Should not be a problem at all with your experience level. You do need to pay very careful attention during training to the care and feeding of turbine engines. Hot sections are very expensive. It's not hard, just different.
 

ILLINI

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
495
Total Time
++++
I'm relatively new to the King Air C90, but i've found that it is not as hard to learn as I one thought. Systems aren't any more complicated than they would be in a 400 series Cessna, ALOT more reliable than any piston, and an engine failure is almost a non-event. Heck, the thing feathers itself and even applies rudder boost to help you keep it level! Someone with your experience should't have any trouble learning the King Air, and anyone with the ability to learn will do fine if they go through school at Flight Safety.

If your company belongs to MBAA, have them do a cost benefit analasys for you and they will tell you which one best suits your needs.
 

Caveman

Grandpa
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
1,580
Total Time
11000+
My guess is that with your experience the insurance cost for the C90 will kill the deal. Until either of you get to around 3000TT and 500 turbine you might not not even be able to find anyone that will insure the airplane. Same for any turbine. I know, I know. The turbine is safer and more reliable. It also costs a whole lot more to fix if you f*ck it up.
 

FL000

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
1,577
Total Time
1500
The plane you see to the left (until I change my pic) is one of the easiest to fly aircraft I have ever been in. It is very safe, docile and FUN. I haven't flown a twin Cessna, but highly recommend the BE90. Beechcraft are by far my favorite planes. I can't say enough good things about them.
 

avbug

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,602
Total Time
n/a
It's not a matter of "hard." Hard implies difficulty, and moving in to turbine equipment will be easy in terms of difficulty.

A bigger issue is one of insurability, and experience. Total time is entirely meaningless. More important is what you've been doing for those 1,200 hours. Your time is very low, to be sure, but what you have done during that time, and what you have learned from it, counts for a lot. If it's all been in a J-3 cub, that won't be a lot of use transitioning to a King Air.

How will your insurance carrier view your past experience? Are you up to speed on instruments? Have you flown your approaches at a fast enough speed, and how are you on systems knowledge? Are you serious about your flying? These things count for a lot. It's not a matter of a king air being a hard airplane to fly; it isn't. (What airplane is??). It's a matter of being able to do it; availability, insurance, judgement, basic flying skills.

Remember too, that at a reasonably low experience level, the airplane may be far more capable than you. That is, it may be equipped and capable of going places that you are not. A big judgement issue is knowing your limitations and respecting them. Don't let that equipment, or the boss, take you places or in conditions you shouldn't be.
 
3

350DRIVER

We operate a C90B, E90, as well as the older A90 and all three are by far the easiest of any turbine multi-engine aircraft out there. Our newer C90B being my favorite- The PT6A-21's are great engines and extremely reliable. The only concern that you may have is the insurance requirements since I know our insurance company is somewhat strict and they want to see quite a few hours of "turbine" time in the logbook as well as initial/recurrent training before they will insure us as PIC. "hard" though should be left out of the equation when your company decides on the next aircraft you purchase since the 90 is by far the easiest of the King Air fleet to operate. Blue line is 108, Vmca is 80, stall 78 (KIAS) calculated at MTOW of 10,100 lbs if that tells you something. Raytheon manufactures a very nice, reliable, safe, and very easy plane to operate so if you decide to purchase one I would bet you would enjoy it to the utmost...

Any other questions feel free to ask

350
 

publisher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
592
Total Time
20,000
Righto

Caveman made the point,,,,, what are the insurance limits for one of you.

You are probably fine as F/o but one of you needs turbine time, probably in the 500 hour area, at least 250 along with TT etc.

Airplane is like big Aztec. Reliable, tough, solid. More like truck than your Cessna although I have not flown later models.

Only thing I disliked was they are sort of short and crosswinds were a pain at where we were based as that was all we had. The 100 we had was easier.
 

dlwdracos

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2002
Posts
61
Total Time
400hrs
My CFI got a corporate gig in a B90 with about 50 hours ME and maybe 5000 flight instruction given. He was in his 50's and had been instructing for a long time.

He went to Flight Safety, and they insured him to fly the plane. That simple.
 

wildbill

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
225
Total Time
5000
You are going to find, just as everyone has told you, it is a dream to fly. Very straight forward operation. Really fun.
Like wise when it comes to insurance that is another story. Of course you must do the FlightSafety thing or even SimuFlight which is a little cheaper. With your time your insurance company will probably require an experiened pilot to fly with you for at least a Min. of 25 hours or up to maybe a hundred hours. No big deal. Well worth the safety aspect of it. Once you get the plane on line your boss will kick himself for not making the transition sooner. The maintenance costs are going to be different. Remember two things 1. Beechcraft means premium. 2. There is not much to do until it breaks and when it does it is not cheap. The dependability is far and away worth the bucks. Go for it
Good Luck to you and let us know how you like it
Best Wishes..
 

cvsfly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Posts
723
Total Time
4600
Insurance comments continued

Thought I might hijack this conversation and ask more about current insurance requirements. What are operators finding out about their insurance requirements after 9/11, especially those who have renewed since Jan? We have been operating a late model BE-B200 Pt 135 & 91. Myself, currently about 700 hrs in the BE-B200, 900 turbine, 1900 Twin, 4650 TT, ATP/CFI (no accidents/incidents). We have always tried to operate 2 pilots (we have a co-pilot with a little more than half the above times), but would like the flexibility to operate single-pilot when needed. Our insurance renewed in FEB. It went up about 105% with stipulations that we operate 2 pilots on 91 & 135 and the "walk-on" requirements just for co-pilots is 1000 TT/500 twin. We reduced our preminum by reducing our liability and hull but is still about $12,000 more than we were paying. Policy is through USAIG. Boss wants to "shop around", but what I realize is that there are only a handful of underwriters around and unless you are up for renewal they can't quote you. Is this true and is this what others are seeing? Is there a consumer complaint board? The insurance companies are running scared and seem to be taking advantage of 9/11.
 

Counselair

"He said member..."
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Posts
210
Total Time
Wasted
Don't think twice about it. My first commuter job was at BEX flying a 1900C model. Prior to that, the biggest equipment I have flown was Navajo/Chieftons. Its a great plane and probably one of the funnest I've been in. Its a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**cat. Good luck with the insurance. Don't ever be worried about a plane or training, just be prepared.

Have Fun!

Counselair :)
 

wildbill

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
225
Total Time
5000
CVSFLY:
I believe there are four major players in the insurance game for aircraft. When your broker checks rates he effectively closes the door for others to quote a rate from those companies. This is where you have to be able to trust your broker because he knows that he can now charge what he thinks he can squeeze from you. I have just been through the process with the purchase of our new Excel. The agent we had "previously" had added a little nest egg of an additional 10 grand to the premium.
They thought I would not find out, but did. He no longer writes our policy. There is a form you can obtain to fill out with a reputable insurance broker which will allow him to open those closed doors. The killer right now is not necessarily the hull or liability insurance, but the "war" insurance that lenders are now requiring you to keep that can add 15 to 20 percent to your coverage right off the bat. Just another way for the insurance companies to hedge their bets.
If I can help you send me a PM. I will try to help if I can.
 
Top