MESA PILOTS... (furlough) question from a newbie

[N4niner206]

Greetings everyone,

This is a question for all the guys and gals flying for Mesa Airlines. Before I start, I want everyone to know that my intent of this message is NOT to bash Mesa Air Group. I'm new to the airline industry... interviewed with Mesa in October and was hired. My previous job was seasonal, and ended in November. Because I was expecting a training date soon, I held off on finding a new job. As most of you are aware, Mesa started selling off B1900 aircraft from its Air Midwest system, and as a result of this, all of the B1900 pilots needed to be trained into the Dash8, ERJ, or CRJ. This caused delays in any new-hire training.

Class dates were "announced" and subsequently pushed back due to the training of the B1900 pilots. Before I proceed any further, I want to make it perfectly clear that I AGREE 100% that these pilots, already employed with MAG, should be trained before brining in us new-hires... its only fair. Anyway, I was finally put into class in early January... boy was I excited! Showed up for class... was one of 4 new-hires (the other 24 were AWESOME Air Midwest guys and gal) and we were all in class for the CRJ. We finished indoc, and started systems training. The one day, a couple of folks came over from corporate and explained to us that it was very dissapointing that they had to tell us that the four new-hires were going to be removed from training temporarily, as the company had sold more B1900s and there were several more classes worth of B1900 pilots who had to be trained before any new-hires...including the four of us that had already begun our training. Again, I understand 100% and think that this is fair. During our discussion with the management figures who "broke the news" to us, it was explained that we ARE NOT furloughed, but instead just being placed back in the training pool, and us four would be the first ones back in class when new-hire training resumes.

Two days later, I received a phone call from a Mesa ALPA MEC rep who explained to me that ALPA had heard about our situation, and it is ALPA's stance that we should be furloughed, as our hire date is the first day of training. They also said that they made the company aware of this, but that no response was given by MAG. This is still the case to this day.

My question for any of the MAG pilots out there... I have never had the privelege of seeing Mesa's pilot contract myself. I do not know if ALPA is correct in this interpretation, or if MAG is correct in not having to furlough us. I may be green, but I realize that ALPA and MAG are in a bit of a war, and I want to make sure Im not just being used as a bartering chip. I realize that I should stand up for my rights (if there are any), but at the same time I do not want to shoot myself in the foot. Is anyone willing to help me by providing insight as to how the contract is worded?

To make issues worse, I do not know what my duties are, as far as keeping myself current with flying etc. Unfortunately, I am now in a position where (prior to starting class) i had turned down interviews with other carriers (sounds stupid I know, but im from the PHX area and thats what attracts me to mesa. i know, i know... let the flames begin. its for family reasons though). Now I find myself in a position where, because of training delays, I was without an income and it is extremely difficult for me to take a job instructing or at my previous employer, due to low wages. I guess I did not play it safe, but this has been a real learning experience... as all of these events were unforseen by myself, and apparently management as well (or else we would not have been in class???) Since then, I was called by ExpressJet, but my situation put me in a position where I was no longer attractive to ExpressJet, and the recruiter cancelled my interview :-( Incidentally, I have been invited back to work at both of my previous two employers, and plan on going to the flight school where I worked before my last job... both are fine with me being "temporary", and the flight school offered to bring me back as a supervisor to help with my income situation. Problem is, in order to do this I will still need to take out loans. I'm not about to give up on my dream of being a pilot.

Sorry this is so long, but its quite a big deal to me. Welcome to the industry, right? To sum it up... does anyone know IF i have rights to be furloughed, or am I simply just back in the training pool like Mesa mgt says. Also, does anyone have any advice as to what I am likely responsible for, as far as flight time goes? Your help is greatly appreciated, and PLEAAAAAAAASE, I beg of you not to advise "Go to another airline". Its not an option, and while Im expecting to see that on this board, it won't help me. Thanks in advance.

 

[T-Gates]

I know that quite a few guys at Skyway recently went through this, and I belive thier airline considers them "furloughed".

Does Mesa pay in training? If so, then you are employed. You should retain your seniority date and/or DOH.

Sounds like you got a raw deal, sorry to hear it....

 

[ShadowFlight]

I know that quite a few guys at Skyway recently went through this, and I belive thier airline considers them "furloughed".

T-Gates,

You are correct about Skyway. The 20 that were laid-off from the November class are considered furloughed.

N4,

I'm not an ALPA contract expert (even of Skyway's contract) but I "think" that if you were paid for those few days while at Mesa, then you should be considered furloughed.

I would call back that ALPA rep to get more specific info.

Good luck.

Peace

SF

 

[N4niner206]

Thanks guys. Any little bits of "assumption" are actually very helpful, because at this point I know very little. Do you think that if I went to the MEC office here in PHX, they would allow me to view the contract?

To answer those questions... yes we were paid, and I DID receive a paycheck for twenty hours. For all OTHER purposes, we were told in class that our HIRE DATE was that first day of training (January 3, 2005). We were not in class long enough to receive employee badges. Mesa pays pilots their monthly guarantee from the start of training, so 20 hours was approximately the portion of the month's guarantee that I was in training. Im worried that the contract may not give us furlough rights until we completed training. I know that we WERE considered employees, and some folks at Mesa (the company IS nice enough to have allowed me to do some odd-jobs around some departments to help foot my expenses, thanks to one very kind-hearted chief pilot) and fellow employees are able to pull my name up as an employee... not active though). Also, before you ask... I HAVE asked many folks in management, and seem to have a hard time getting any consistant information. Actually, I recently even emailed JO and made him aware, and asked for his help. Impressively, he responded three minutes later (in the evening from his blackberry) and said he would look into my situation, and even thanked me for my patience. Say what you will, but that small gesture meant a lot to me. Aside from this problem, I've been VERY impressed (somewhat suprisingly, after reading some things) as to the treatment I've received. Of course, I may just be naive.

ALPA expressed to me that under the contract, the company has to either give you 2 weeks notice, or pay you two weeks worth of "severence"-type pay. I did not receive any additional money after the initial check for 20 hours. Im sure you all realize it, but my concern is not for the $700 or whatever I did not get paid for, I just really really hope that I have callback rights (ALPA claims that I do... just not apparent if the company has honored that interpretation).

Now, if I AM furloughed, what is a pilot typically responsible for in regards to proficiency and currency? I know its for my own good to keep IFR current and all... and I have. But are there certain expectations as to how many hours Im logging in the meantime? Thanks for your help and suggestions folks... you guys are great!

 

[flyguy81]

Wasn't one of the 3 with you, but was hired in Nov at MAG and was pushed back twice because of the 1900 debacle. I'm with you, and hopefully we hear something soon. :0)

 

[N4niner206]

Flyguy,

Sorry to hear that you're stuck waiting too. Are you still working at your previous job? Also, did anyone tell you if you were being hired into a "pool" when you received the call... and if so, did they tell you what the expected from you until they called for training?

Incidentally, they never looked at my logbooks or anything when I finally did go to training... and by that point, it had been literally two months since I had even TOUCHED an airplane!! (though I did have my nose in the books a LOT). Just curious what kind of insight you might have. Also, if you have AOL instant messager, feel free to message me if you like (my AIM name is the same as this one). Best of luck to you... hopefully be in class together sometime soon.

 

[350DRIVER]

I am not nor have I ever been a Mesa pilot but I stay in contact with a check airman who also conducts a good number of the interviews so I will take a stab at the question(s). I wouldn't be overly concerned about this present day as all the "current" Mesa folks need to be trained and put on other aircraft prior to any new hires being brought onboard. Sometimes management does not forsee certain equipment numbers being retired thus will send too many to the school house which seems to be the case here. Take a look at the current Delta training back up problems. I would stay put, you were hired and it will be just a matter of time before you will be back in the saddle once Mesa get's all the current folks trained in the CRJ/ERJ/ or the Dash-8. Hang in there and just try and stay current and up to speed on the FAR's and everything else that you have with you.

If you need the income then go back to instructing a few days a week and continue to hit the books. I do not think ALPA is going to be much help if your stuff was not filled out, sent in, and approved, you are probably going to have to just suck it up and hang in there until this situation corrects itself.

Mesa is a very profitable airline and I can't see that many issues of you being stranded and not brought onboard. They continue to get new equipment and even with the retirement of the 1900's this should have little effect on you long term once all is said and done. They continue to interview to my knowledge so obviously they are doing this for future staffing needs and see the need will be present.

good luck

 

[N4niner206]

350 Driver,

All good points... I keep trying to tell myself the same things. My only concern is that 'what if' when they call me into class, they look at my logbooks and say "Oh, you're current but you've hardly flown at all lately! We can't take you NOW!" Maybe I'm being overly pesimistic, but its kind of hard not to at this point.

Im currently working an office job here in Phoenix because I desperately need the money. I have the option to go flight instruct, but it definitely would not be for the money... I'd basically be starting over at my old flight school, and may be a period of time before I have more than one or two students... so money would be minimal there. Plus it will require me to move halfway across the country, which I don't mind. I guess Im trying to figure out what management thinks, so I can make a wise decision... Im having to pit finances against flying (always the story, isnt it?!) As far as ALPA is concerned, THEY were the ones who contacted me and said they wanted to fight this. I just think it might be in my best interest to see the contract for myself before I let them go fight on my behalf. I'd hate to have them go greive something that won't stand up in front of a board, and then have started off on a bad foot with the company (causing them possibly not to bring me back if they dont have to). Oh decisions decisions decisions! Thanks for the info!!!

 

[bobbysamd]

Mesa

Sorry to hear about your situation. My only comment would be that while it's great a union rep showed interest the union can't help you much until you become a full-fledged member. At this point you would still be on probation.

Stay current and try to interest another regional in your services. If Mesa will hire you off the street, so will other regionals. Good luck.

 

[Cosmo1999]

The contract can be found online at http://airlinepilotcontracts.com Techincally if you were in class for an entire week then let go it should be a furlough. You get paid in training from day one so your an employee from day one. Did you get any pay at all? Also Since you werent given any notice you should be given two weeks severance pay and also retaining your DOH. Thats according to the contract. It is kind of a gray area however and you arent a full union member yet. This does not relieve any company of following the contract just because your are a probationary member. This is one of the unfortunate but nessecary side effects of senority. If the fleet gets downsized then the guys who were there first must be retrained into what their senority can hold. The frustrating thing is that if the equipment "fences" werent in place then this wouldnt even be an issue. I would recommend interviewing elsewhere for now. You have a spot in the pool at mesa so you have nothing to lose. That way you can either start building senority somewhere else or start at mesa when they call you back. Good luck.