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jetmaster727

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Isn't it true that if Options were to enter bankruptcy that the union contract is voided?
 

Bjtdrvr

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No offense but why? Right now his labor costs are the lowest in the industry and he is trying to bring that whole system to flex.
 

Propilot77

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Ha. If that were true every company with a union would file for bankruptcy.
Isn't that what all the airlines did after September 11th to get away from the pensions? They filed for bankruptcy and it voided all their contracts, while the gov't sat back, watched, knew it and let it happen. So then why couldn't it happen to Flight Options? Very naive to think not.
 
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CALRepublic

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I don't think chap 11 rules are the same for public vs private companies...

I don't know anything about Flops-flex parent company, are they privately held??? If they are, they might have less protection than an airline under chap 11.
 

tomgoodman

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Isn't that what all the airlines did after September 11th to get away from the pensions? They filed for bankruptcy and it voided all their contracts,......
Not quite. Even in bankruptcy, voiding a contract requires a special procedure including Court approval (Sect. 1113). Dumping a pension requires another procedure (Sect. 1114).
 

skanza

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What B.S., No, you can't. Ricci, Nahill, Sheeringa, Ricci (Again). Which one did you choose? The only choices we can make is to:

1. Quit.

2. Live with unfair management, buy a pair of knee-pads, and beg for scraps from his majesty's table.

or

3. Attempt to improve our situation through collective bargaining through a union.


1. Quit
 

skanza

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You Wish SKANZA, We are here to stay!! BTW what lies have you told this week?

I don't wish. You should stay, just don't spoil the place for everyone else...like a child would.

I can't recall lying this week. (not sure how that's relevant here)
 

doh

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I don't wish. You should stay, just don't spoil the place for everyone else...like a child would.

I can't recall lying this week. (not sure how that's relevant here)
I agree! Currently there are a few spoiling this place for everyone else! They have jumped seniority and are destroying our Flexjet culture. They are NOT Flexjet pilots at all! They are carpet bagging scumbags! That is why it is absolutely essential that we take back our culture with a contract. Stop the scumbags from jumping seniority on the Globals and Gs. Stop management from destroying Flexjet. Glad you don't want to spoil the place too Skank.
 

Honorstudent

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I don't wish. You should stay, just don't spoil the place for everyone else...like a child would.

I can't recall lying this week. (not sure how that's relevant here)
Oh don't worry I plan on staying and improving the quality of life for all of our pilots and not just the 20% hand picked by KR. With over 20 years here I have no intention on leaving. Not sure what you are talking about spoiling for everyone else, because with a strong CBA everyone wins.
 

Dooker

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I agree! Currently there are a few spoiling this place for everyone else! They have jumped seniority and are destroying our Flexjet culture. They are NOT Flexjet pilots at all! They are carpet bagging scumbags! That is why it is absolutely essential that we take back our culture with a contract. Stop the scumbags from jumping seniority on the Globals and Gs. Stop management from destroying Flexjet. Glad you don't want to spoil the place too Skank.
"Flexjet culture"? Please! Flexjet never had a "culture". Unless you wanna call whoring for overtime and grabbing all the extra days you could even as guys were being furloughed on a massive scale a "culture".

And lest we forget the "focus groups." And our very own equivalent of the FOK's, only in our case they were friends of people like the head of OS, or RH, and on and on and on.

And then there was our training department, with its incestuous little clique of lifetime appointees who barely if ever flew the line yet still somehow had been granted the power of life and death over our careers.

Flexjet's "culture" was a scab culture from the top down, and it's that "culture" which explains the mess you're all in now.
 
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Bjtdrvr

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Hahaha. Maybe that is why KR purchased them then! Because he certainly hasn't kept any of their "best practices"!
 

Dooker

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Hahaha. Maybe that is why KR purchased them then! Because he certainly hasn't kept any of their "best practices"!

He knew exactly what he was getting when he bought 'Flex: a pilot group too stupid and vain and lazy to get out of its own way, who had all the notice in the world about what was coming (remember the big Global and Challenger sale to Netjets? Remember?), yet still refused to believe it.

I spent about three or four years longer than I should have there and I flew with some great but for the most part incredibly naive and unimaginative guys. Almost all of them are still there. A lot of them haven't updated their logbooks or spiffed up a resume in YEARS. A lot of them cannot even imagine a life outside of that place. To me, that's the greatest tragedy of the train wreck that was Flexjet.
 
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GlorifiedCabbie

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Hahaha. Maybe that is why KR purchased them then! Because he certainly hasn't kept any of their "best practices"!
We, on the Options side, were hoping that, with the purchase of Flexjet, it would be an improvement on both sides. The company doesn't want any input on "best practices". They really want their pre-contract days of their unchallenged dictatorship. Why won't the company let the negotiators from the Flex pilots side get time off for the negotiations? What about having the negotiations down in Dallas, where the Flex pilots can see what is really going on? Can't have that happen, those pilots might get exposed to what is going on and they might just wake up!
 

ksu_aviator

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You guys have a choice. You can continue to trash each other and make enemies of people who should be allies or you can put the past aside and concentrate on a common goal for the future. I doubt the former will make your lives better than the later option.
 

Imissmypilot

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We, on the Options side, were hoping that, with the purchase of Flexjet, it would be an improvement on both sides. The company doesn't want any input on "best practices". They really want their pre-contract days of their unchallenged dictatorship. Why won't the company let the negotiators from the Flex pilots side get time off for the negotiations? What about having the negotiations down in Dallas, where the Flex pilots can see what is really going on? Can't have that happen, those pilots might get exposed to what is going on and they might just wake up!
Is the rumor that our negotiators are spending their personal time to attend actually true? I thought it was just more whining about needing volunteers.

Those are all 300 guys. That would mean on a 16 day line where their butts are run ragged and 5+ days of negotiations, these guys are spending at the most 5 or 6 days a month in their own beds. That seems unreasonable.

If actually true, it sounds more like the company is sending a message regarding their expectations for our future. YIKES!

If the negotiating reports are true it's even more frustrating to hear how the company is abusing the process. Dragging them up there under false pretenses since the company just sits there and refuses to consider any and all proposals. Once again, a look at our future.
 

Imissmypilot

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You guys have a choice. You can continue to trash each other and make enemies of people who should be allies or you can put the past aside and concentrate on a common goal for the future. I doubt the former will make your lives better than the later option.
The problem with this statement is that Dooker was so freaking spot on, even with the loftiest goals of coalescence these IGM dbags will still hold us all back to less than we could get. At least this way we can have a little venting.
 

ksu_aviator

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The problem with this statement is that Dooker was so freaking spot on, even with the loftiest goals of coalescence these IGM dbags will still hold us all back to less than we could get. At least this way we can have a little venting.
Maybe if you stopped calling them dbags it might help.
 

Imissmypilot

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Maybe if you stopped calling them dbags it might help.
It was a little tongue in cheek, a little bit truth (ya know, sarcasm). Lighten up, Francis.

The point was Kenn Ricci has his second best choice to no union and that is no unity based on the CULTure of what he bought. Second to the name, he wanted the narcissistic attitude Flexjet has always been famous for in the FBOS. We could change that but it's unlikely a little less colorful language will accomplish that goal. So do you have any other suggestions?

As for colorful language it's funny. I'm a huge fan of Hard Knocks on HBO. This season focusing on the Rams moving back to LA is a great one. These teams are so good at building almost instantaneous unity despite the rapid, ever coming changes. You know what I've learned that challenges your assumption? Colorful language and truth win out every time. The only ones who complain are just simply not up to the task of winning.

BTW, I heard one of our own management team extended his hand to shake a union leaders with just the middle finger extended. Now that 's leadership, right KSU? I guess management does not have to practice good behavior. Ya know, as if the near constant law breaking, lying and conniving weren't enough to tell you their view is one sided. I do have to admit that did crack me up though when I heard it. Classic d-baggery.
 
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