Logging time in Augmented Crews

Miami Freight

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How do you guys log flight time when you are flying an augmented or heavy crew? Is it then entire block time or just time in seat? I not concerned about what goes into my logbook just don't want to violate any FARs.
 

typhoonpilot

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Miami Freight:

What kind of airplane ? We used to fly heavy crew in an MD-80 for a SFO-CUN roundtrip. Two captains and one f.o. , 12 hours roundtrip. We always logged two-thirds of the time. I am pretty sure we checked with our POI before we started doing that to make sure it was legal.

If the airplane has an F.E. I am not sure how it is done.
 

Miami Freight

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The type of plane is irrelevant. This was gleened from Alpa's Guide to Flight time Limits.

Q-71. A flight crewmember is assigned to a three-pilot (augmented) crew on a two-crew aircraft scheduled for a 12-hour flight and cannot be at the controls more than eight hours. Does he/she log eight or 12 hours of flight time?

A-71. The pilot logs 12 hours as the entire time is duty aloft. Therefore, the total time must be counted in computing the monthly and yearly limits.

Looks like you must log bunk time against your limits, but I know my company does not look at it that way according to the GOM.
 

typhoonpilot

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I wish I had a FAR 121 reference at home, because it would make the issue as clear as mud. Also look at Part 61 for logging flight time. Specifically 61.51 (e) (2) and 61.51 (f) (1) and (2). Based on that the PIC could arguably log as specified by ALPA but the other two guys could only log the time in a crewmember seat. It really all boils down to what interpretation your POI is using because he is the one who will cause problems if it is not being done correctly.
 

Icebergclub

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Logging time

Hey guys,
At our airline we fly 95% of our trips with one captain and 2 or 3 F/O's. (all crewmembers typed in the a/c) All crewmembers log the block time of the entire trip under total time. For example a DFW to SEL usually 14 to 15 hours block, gets logged as Total time. Then we have sub-categories for Pilot Flying, Pilot not flying. I have had my logbooks examined by three different airlines and have not had any trouble with how my time is logged. The official or FAA time for the trip is block time say 14.5 hours, we are all required crew and whether your sleeping or sitting up in a seat doesnt matter, your required crew for the trip and you can legally log the 14.5 hours under total time. The sub-categories are your descretion, most guys here log the PF, PNF. Some guys also have a cruise captain slot. U.S. airlines dont care about cruise captain time but alot of foreign carriers do.

People unfamiliar with the long-haul world get a good laugh out of our logbooks. We have big total time numbers but relatively small pilot flying and number of landings numbers. I have 58 landings for 1050 hours of 747 time.

An airline is going to care about your total time in the aircraft. Most are going to ignore your PF or PNF numbers. With an average of 4 crewmembers on a two-pilot airplane your actual sitting at the controls flying time is going to be very small. And if you consider that 98% of your leg flying is on autopilot your actual flying time is VERY small. We also have CAT III requirements for doing an autoland every 15 days which really cuts into your actual flying time.

So as an F/O with a type rating in the aircraft I log total time, SIC time, actuall IMC, X/country and landings as my official time and then I add for my own personal use PF, PNF, and cruise captain time.

I'd like to hear from any other guys how they do it at there place........

Blue Skies,
 

Miami Freight

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Does this present any problems staying within the guidelines of FAR 121.483. Especially the 1000 hours during and 12 calender month period? I know that if I logged time that way I would have violated the 120 hours in 30 days rule.

My question is within the context of what is legal IAW the FARs. I will never have to explain my log book at an interview because I don't plan on ever going to another one.
 
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typhoonpilot

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I don't agree with icebergclub. How can you possibly log time as a pilot while sleeping in a bunk outside of the cockpit ? How does this possibly add to your aeronautical experience ? In the end that is what a log book is supposed to show.

Looking again at FAR 61.51 I can see where he is coming from, but it just doesn't make sense.
 

typhoonpilot

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Okay, I guess I get to eat a little crow here. Just talked to a friend of mine who works overseas. He did some heavy crew stuff here in the states after I left and the POI changed his tune and started making them count the entire flight towards the FAR limits. I guess that makes ALPA's Q. and A. correct. Still the log book time was I have indicated before.
 
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