Logging PIC time??

AHPilot

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what?
Was wondering....I wanted to find another Private pilot to go on some x-c's with and was wondering about logging the time..

Is there any way for me to act as PIC on leg and log the time as PIC, then my buddy fly the next leg...and me still logging the time?? I can still log it as flight time correct, just not PIC time, or is that illegal? So in a way it would be SIC time...but then again it's just a C-152....is that even possible to log SIC time in a Cessna or other GA a/c?

Heard this one too:
One person can be designated as the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft--logs PIC
The other person is designated as PIC of the safety of the aircraft, safety of flight...something like that....
Both logging PIC?? Is this legal?

Thanks in advance,
LT
 

avbug

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Lt,

Yes, two pilots may log pilot in command time at the same time, under several circumstances. An ATP acting as PIC of an aircraft requiring an ATP certificate, for example (although not manipulating the controls, and the pilot manipulating the controls logging the time as sole manipulator...more on that momentarily). A flight instructor while acting as an authorized instructor (The student, if qualified to act as PIC and is sole manipulator of the controls, may also log the time as PIC).

Two private pilots in a light general aviation aircraft requiring only one pilot under it's type certification, may still both log PIC at the same time under specific circumstances. Assume both pilots are rated in the airplane (category and class; endorsements are not applicable or necessary for logging purposes).

The pilot acting as sole manipulator of the controls may log the time in accordance with Part 61.51(e)(1)(i). If this pilot is wearing a view limiting device, a safety pilot is required in accordance with 91.109(b)(1).

If the safety pilot is acting as pilot in command, he or she is entitled to log the time as pilot in command, in accordance with 61.51(e)(1)(iii). If the safety pilot is not acting as pilot in command, he or she may log nothing, or SIC. Logging nothing may be preferrable, as second in command experience in a single engine airplane type certificated for single pilot operation, doesn't look, or smell good.

There is no requirement to "designate" a sole manipulator, but certainly a difinitive agreement should be reached on who will act as pilot in command, hold final authority for acting and making decisions regarding safety of flight, and who will untimately assume responsibility for the flight. In order for the safety pilot to act as PIC, he or she must be fully qualified to do so, hold a current medical certificate, and be flight current in accordance with 61.57.

Remember that while logging time may be a side benifit, time logged for the sake of logging is relatively worthless. The only hour that counts is the last one you flew; make it count by getting the most out of it. Fly approaches, partial panel work, and do all manner of exercises that will boost your skill and experience level, rather than just add hours to your book. Hours are worthless, experience is priceless. Build experience, rather than hours.
 

AHPilot

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what?
Thanks for the reply Avbug

Thing is I'm still a little shaky on those long x-c's away from home...thinkin if I go with a fellow private pilot with a little more experience maybe I can boost my confidence level a bit

Thanks Again
LT
 

AWACoff

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CFIs are not required to have valid medicals if the "student" is current and legal in the aircraft being flown. If a CFI does not have a valid medical, could they still give remedial instrument instruction (flight with the "student" under the hood") to an instrument rated pilot? I would think they could but you are correct more often than not, avbug.
 

avbug

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AWAC,

You are correct; so long as a flight instructor is not acting as pilot in command (eg, the student is qualified and able to act as PIC), then the instructor does not need a current medical certificate, flight review, and need not be current in terms of landings or approaches.

An instructor who is not acting as PIC may still act as an authorized instructor in visual and instrument conditions, and may instruct at any level except primary (in which the student may not act as pilot-in-command), in most cases. Even then, an instructor may act as an authorized instructor in certain circumstances, while another pilot acts as pilot in command.

To specifically answer your question, a flight instructor without a valid medical certificate may give remedial or primary instrument instruction to a pilot, so long as that pilot is qualified and able to act as PIC. An instructor without an current medical certificate may give instrument instruction to an instrument student from the first hour of that instrument instruction, through the preparation for the practical test, so long as the flight is not operated in conditions which would require the instructor to act as PIC (eg, under IFR, or in instrument conditions less than VFR).

A flight instructor certificate is not a pilot certificate, and there is no requirement for an instructor to act as pilot in command (except in cases where the student is unable to do so due to certification, capability, or currency). Except when acting as PIC, a flight instructor is being paid as an instructor, not as a pilot, and is not assuming the duties of pilot services.

Even without a valid medical certificate, flight review, or flight/instrument currency, a flight instructor may log all time spent acting as an authorized instructor, as pilot-in-command flight time.
 
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