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Livable wage

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405 said:
What is your definition of livable wage? I've seen this phrase quite a bit.

Livable wage= not having to use my pickup line, "So do you wanna come back to my mom's basement??" and mean it!!

Don't get me wrong I love the line, but I its lame when they find out you are serious:eek:
 
Hello flamebait,

Since I'm unsure I've ever used the term, I'll refrain from pretending I'm answering the question for anyone else. I'll take about an ounce of brain power (that's all I've got) and take a guess though:

A wage which would be commensurate to the experience and cost of attaining the training required that would produce a means to an end (ie retirement) by the required retirement date.

What exactly that wage would be, ask a financial planner. Obviously, IMO, it'd be well into the 6 figures if raising a family and not dependent on a pension.

For instance, while a livable wage for a construction worker may be 50,000, that same wage may be 100,000 for an airline pilot Why? Well things like compounding interest and student loans to break even with the construction worker who began his wage earning (and subsequently retirement savings) MUCH sooner.
 
Retirement is all well and good. But you're forgetting the obvious. Whether you're a construction worker, a Wal Mart employee, or a regional FO, you still have to be able to pay for housing, utilites, food, etc every day in your community. It varies by location, but generally, livable wage means being able to meet your financial obligations with a full time job where you live.

Where I live, living wage means averaging $8/hr in a 40 hour week. Less than that, and you have to live in mom's basement.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage
or the obvious Google reference: http://www.google.com/search?q=livable+wage
 
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Living wage shouldn't have to cover your training expenses. Living wage should only cover your housing, essential bills, and food.

Training expenses should be viewed as motivation...that said, I agree that any professional pilot should be paid more than construction workers, but for different reasons - ie medical exam, and proficiency checks generally every 6 months can put you out of business.

If I had to guess it's probably about 125% poverty line. (that's the figure USCIS use for immigration sponsors).
 
Catbert said:
Retirement is all well and good. But you're forgetting the obvious. Whether you're a construction worker, a Wal Mart employee, or a regional FO, you still have to be able to pay for housing, utilites, food, etc every day in your community. It varies by location, but generally, livable wage means being able to meet your financial obligations with a full time job where you live.

Where I live, living wage means averaging $8/hr in a 40 hour week. Less than that, and you have to live in mom's basement.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage
or the obvious Google reference: http://www.google.com/search?q=livable+wage

Hello Mr. Obvious,

No I wasn't forgetting the obvious, I just thought it too OBVIOUS to mention. Yes food, shelter and transportation are involved.

Oops, I forgot to mention toilet paper.... :/
 
NoPax said:
Living wage shouldn't have to cover your training expenses. Living wage should only cover your housing, essential bills, and food.

Training expenses should be viewed as motivation...that said, I agree that any professional pilot should be paid more than construction workers, but for different reasons - ie medical exam, and proficiency checks generally every 6 months can put you out of business.

If I had to guess it's probably about 125% poverty line. (that's the figure USCIS use for immigration sponsors).

You're describing poverty wages. If you don't make enough to cover the training required to enter your position, only your food and shelter... then you're netting a negative amount which will subsequently result in bankruptcy.

Holy christ they need to have financial education inserted into our elementary schools. I thought basic algebra would have been enough but apparently connecting the dots is too difficult for some.
 
nonstop said:
Hello flamebait,
nonstop said:
Hello Mr. Obvious,

No I wasn't forgetting the obvious, I just thought it too OBVIOUS to mention. Yes food, shelter and transportation are involved.

Oops, I forgot to mention toilet paper.... :/
Do you start all your posts with Hello ______, ?

But seriously, of course it's obvious, that's not the point. Livable wage is a known, recognized concept and term. It's not based on retirement pay or what we feel we're worth because of our training costs.

What you're describing is what I would euphemistically call pay-me-for-what-I-think-I'm-worth pay. I think it's just as valid and important. It's just not the definition of Livable Wage.
 
Hello nonstop genius,

Let me clarify the question for you. I was asking for opinions of what a livable wage was for a pilot. I wasn't asking for a godd*mn lesson on economics or the phone number for your financial planner. Don't read too much into it. Keep it simple.

flamebaiter
 
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Catbert said:
Do you start all your posts with Hello ______, ?

But seriously, of course it's obvious, that's not the point. Livable wage is a known, recognized concept and term. It's not based on retirement pay or what we feel we're worth because of our training costs.

What you're describing is what I would euphemistically call pay-me-for-what-I-think-I'm-worth pay. I think it's just as valid and important. It's just not the definition of Livable Wage.

What? What are you babbling about? I'm not talking about what I think anyone should be paid. I'm simply acknowledging if you enter into a profession with a negative net worth, it requires a greater wage to break even.

If you want to address a profession with a HIGH training cost and a REQUIRED retirement age then you have to ACKNOWLEDGE a higher adjusted income before you even being to address (and I never even TOUCHED on this) what the position is "worth."

Thus the definition of a "livable wage" in this profession (which I'll ASSUME the poster was questioning about since it's in an AIRLINE PILOT FORUM) needs to address those issues.
 

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