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Latest from ASA/XJT JNC

ASADriver

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
706
Total Time
7000+
You could have a TA that has slight improvements on the ASA side with slight concessions on the XJT side which would probably pass. The XJT side has burned a lot of bridges with the ASA side and it is really their fault we are in this spot. Frankly, I don't care what they think.
 

SkyNation

U.S. American
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
953
Total Time
12:34
You could have a TA that has slight improvements on the ASA side with slight concessions on the XJT side which would probably pass. The XJT side has burned a lot of bridges with the ASA side and it is really their fault we are in this spot. Frankly, I don't care what they think.

^^^ding!ding!ding!

and why the HELL would the weakest leak in the Inc. chain deserve or think they won't have to concede ANYTHING?
 

jetstream

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
279
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11000
This airline is stuck in a loop. We don't have the money we need to improve our operational performance and we leave money on the table because our performance is so poor.
 

pilotnbr1

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
72
Total Time
lots
Dangling the carrot of more airplanes is no longer the panacea it once was. For the last several years the only way to create movement was more airplanes but soon that will not be the case. Going forward, movement will be created externally by legacy carriers hiring. I could care less if more airplanes come on property... Let the contract stay unchanged.
 

Oakum_Boy

supercalifragilistic
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Messages
2,405
Total Time
24
This airline is stuck in a loop. We don't have the money we need to improve our operational performance and we leave money on the table because our performance is so poor.
That's correct. We also don't have the brainpower in the G.O., more importantly.

Hire some German efficiency experts to clean house over there.
 

wms

billSquared
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Messages
2,052
Total Time
10500
^^^ding!ding!ding!

and why the HELL would the weakest leak in the Inc. chain deserve or think they won't have to concede ANYTHING?
Because by shear numbers their vote counts the most. All lasa or sapa can do is whine. Lxjt can make their case with their vote, which I hope brings improvements for all of us, which is more than the lasa mec or sapa boys club want to do.
 

cybourg10

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
481
Total Time
1,000
LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.
 

Clutch

Hi, I'm William Devane
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
1,242
Total Time
.
LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.
I'm on board with that. Unfortunately, it's the lifers who wind up on the MEC
 

Oakum_Boy

supercalifragilistic
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Messages
2,405
Total Time
24
LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous.
That's the way it is in every facet of every business.

Do something worthwhile and go to law school. Then find out you do all the work making 75k while the partners collect 750K whist playing golf.

Your mother probably made sure you got lots of participation trophies when you were little. Oh wait, she probably still does.
 
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mtsupilot376

happy to be alive
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
156
Total Time
3200
That's the way it is in every facet of every business.

Do something worthwhile and go to law school. Then find out you do all the work making 75k while the partners collect 750K whist playing golf.

Your mother probably made sure you got lots of participation trophies when you were little. Oh wait, she probably still does.
That's when you hang out at the law firm for a few years making the measly pay whilst collecting the partner's dirty laundry and closet skeletons then turn around and demand 350k/yr in blackmail to keep them out of jail. If they tell you to pound sand, you sell their secrets to the highest paying competitor and make bank.

That's how you get ahead in this country. Welcome to the new norm.
 

enuffalready

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
607
Total Time
4000+
That's when you hang out at the law firm for a few years making the measly pay whilst collecting the partner's dirty laundry and closet skeletons then turn around and demand 350k/yr in blackmail to keep them out of jail. If they tell you to pound sand, you sell their secrets to the highest paying competitor and make bank.

That's how you get ahead in this country. Welcome to the new norm.
gotta love the victim mentality. That way if you fail you have someone to blame other than yourself. yeah man... its the system... the man is keeping me down. waaaahhhh

go open up your own law firm and you can call yourself senior partner. Then you can sue yourself when you get fired snooping around the senior partners office trying to dig up dirt so you don't have to work or produce anything of value
 
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IFLYASA

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
545
Total Time
10400
LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.
Why would a lifer want a pay cut after years of seniority to get to that point? If you become a lifer you shoot yourself in the foot.
 

jetstream

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
279
Total Time
11000
LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.
Be careful about criticizing someone until you have walked in their shoes. I'm going on year 14 at ASA and, though I never planned to be, it looks like I'm a lifer. Had what was an almost guaranteed in at DL in the spring of 2001. We all know what happened in the fall of 2001 and that was that. Had a possible chance to go again in 2007 but due to many factors chose not to. Decided I was better off staying where I was and building seniority and QOL than going to the bottom of the list of an airline that was about to go through a merger.

Those pilots in the top 10% you refer to weren't born there. They stuck with it and earned their way there, working for years at much lower wages. They are nearing retirement, the kids are grown and now support themselves. We have no pension plan. The last few years they have at the airline are their best opportunity to earn a good wage while putting a large chunk of it away for retirement.

Obviously, I don't know your background or current situation but I do know that we all have to cover the same ground. Its a journey to a destination and your perspective depends on where you are along that path.
 

wms

billSquared
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Messages
2,052
Total Time
10500
LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.
Why should anyone take a paycut? Just because you want more?
 

SAABaroowski

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
193
Total Time
A lot
Be careful about criticizing someone until you have walked in their shoes. I'm going on year 14 at ASA and, though I never planned to be, it looks like I'm a lifer. Had what was an almost guaranteed in at DL in the spring of 2001. We all know what happened in the fall of 2001 and that was that. Had a possible chance to go again in 2007 but due to many factors chose not to. Decided I was better off staying where I was and building seniority and QOL than going to the bottom of the list of an airline that was about to go through a merger.

Those pilots in the top 10% you refer to weren't born there. They stuck with it and earned their way there, working for years at much lower wages. They are nearing retirement, the kids are grown and now support themselves. We have no pension plan. The last few years they have at the airline are their best opportunity to earn a good wage while putting a large chunk of it away for retirement.

Obviously, I don't know your background or current situation but I do know that we all have to cover the same ground. Its a journey to a destination and your perspective depends on where you are along that path.
There are more Airlines than just Delta ya know. Even at Spirit, which I know is not on everyone's list has 2nd or 3rd year F/Os making more than you. Hell, a 14 year guy at Spirit just got bumped to $185.00 and hr with a growing airline while you are asked to take another pay cut. Just 10 years ago, SWA wasn't everyone's #1 choice, but look at them the past few years. People laughed at guys that went to US Airways a few years ago, they are the ones laughing now, Continental wasn't all that great, look at them now etc..... Maybe if some of you guys weren't "holding out" for one particular airline you wouldn't be in a position to have to sell everyone else out because you decided to be a lifer?
 

Oakum_Boy

supercalifragilistic
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Messages
2,405
Total Time
24
Maybe if some of you guys weren't "holding out" for one particular airline you wouldn't be in a position to have to sell everyone else out because you decided to be a lifer?
Maybe you should run that by the $185/hr lifer you're sitting next to this week.
 

Oakum_Boy

supercalifragilistic
Joined
Nov 10, 2003
Messages
2,405
Total Time
24
Then he definitely should GTFO of your seat!
 

jetstream

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
279
Total Time
11000
There are more Airlines than just Delta ya know. Even at Spirit, which I know is not on everyone's list has 2nd or 3rd year F/Os making more than you. Hell, a 14 year guy at Spirit just got bumped to $185.00 and hr with a growing airline while you are asked to take another pay cut. Just 10 years ago, SWA wasn't everyone's #1 choice, but look at them the past few years. People laughed at guys that went to US Airways a few years ago, they are the ones laughing now, Continental wasn't all that great, look at them now etc..... Maybe if some of you guys weren't "holding out" for one particular airline you wouldn't be in a position to have to sell everyone else out because you decided to be a lifer?
I'm well aware of that. DL was just the example I chose. Can't fit a 14 year career and all that has happened into a few paragraphs.

The point was that, due to a plethora of reasons, many pilots who never planned on being a lifer at a regional find themselves in that position. Like I said, don't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes for a while. You make your career and lifestyle decisions and we'll make ours.

Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a huge lake.
 
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79%N1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
2,441
Total Time
2 many
I'm well aware of that. DL was just the example I chose. Can't fit a 14 year career and all that has happened into a few paragraphs.

The point was that, due to a plethora of reasons, many pilots who never planned on being a lifer at a regional find themselves in that position. Like I said, don't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes for a while. You make your career and lifestyle decisions and we'll make ours.

Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a huge lake.
Like age 65 stopping hiring for 5 yars locking yu in, 9/11 causing years of massive Legacy furloughs, and the economic melt down of 2007 that caused many bankruptcies? Oh yeah, and the 3 huge mergers??? Like that?
 
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