JO Decides Code-Shares Are Better Than Flying Empty in HI

[dash8driver]

its not the fact of having a new competitor that has people upset. no one got upset when WP became its own airline recently. the difference is the scorched earth style that JO is coming to the island with.



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[islandhopper]

its not the fact of having a new competitor that has people upset. no one got upset when WP became its own airline recently. the difference is the scorched earth style that JO is coming to the island with.





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here here. Nobody is running off calling Alaska or Southwest evil pillagers because they want to come to Hawaii either.

 

[Soverytired]

Wait, I'm confused . . .

here here. Nobody is running off calling Alaska or Southwest evil pillagers because they want to come to Hawaii either.

Alaska and Southwest are doing inter-island flights in Hawaii?

Funny, I thought they were doing direct flights from the mainland only. I thought the inter-island take was what was driving a few Aloha/Hawaii guys nuts.

And in all seriousness . . . what "scorched earth" policy? You mean cheap tickets? Nobody objected to Indy Air when they took that path (though it fed their own destruction and rapid demise . . .)

 

[dash8driver]

yes, you were confused. the point is that competition is not a problem, where its happening doesnt matter either.

if you think i meant cheap tickets, you either are trying to be cute or you have your head burried and havent been reading any of his press releases. making statements like "we can fly empty planes for 5 years...", etc is pretty clear that his main mission is to cause maximum damage to the other players, not to provide air service as a business.

if you were playing pool at the bar... you typically have to compete to stay on the table. if someone comes in and asserts their position with a bat or a gun, are you going to look at them the same way you do the other patrons?


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Alaska and Southwest are doing inter-island flights in Hawaii?

Funny, I thought they were doing direct flights from the mainland only. I thought the inter-island take was what was driving a few Aloha/Hawaii guys nuts.

And in all seriousness . . . what "scorched earth" policy? You mean cheap tickets? Nobody objected to Indy Air when they took that path (though it fed their own destruction and rapid demise . . .)

 

[dash8driver]

.......

 

[Soverytired]

Trust me, no one as EVER accused me of being "cute" . . . .

yes, you were confused. the point is that competition is not a problem, where its happening doesnt matter either.

if you think i meant cheap tickets, you either are trying to be cute or you have your head burried and havent been reading any of his press releases. making statements like "we can fly empty planes for 5 years...", etc is pretty clear that his main mission is to cause maximum damage to the other players, not to provide air service as a business.

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I don't really think JO's plan is to lose money for 5 years. I really think that sort of talk is to convince Mesa's insitutional investors that this operation represents a very small portion of Mesa's business, and will at worst lose only a small amount of MAG's overall cash.

Nor do I think he's interested in undercutting Aloha or Hawaiian just for spite . . .and spite it would be, because I think it's highly unlikely that he'll be able to bleed either carrier back into BK with a few beat-up, broken down, APU working "one-day-in-11" CRJs.

If I were a Hawaiian/Aloha pilot, I'd relax and just ignore the whole thing. Remember, JetBlue started with 150 million, a fantastic mangement team, brand new aircraft, and low cost employees. 5 years later, it's an open question as to whether or not they'll be around in another 5. This is MESA . . . we're talking about, not JetBlue.

If you're a tenth as good as you think you are, you'll clean Mesa's clock. If you're in reality just a local monopoly gouging local traffic, well . . . then it might get interesting. Personally, I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle . . . and you'll pull out ahead in short order (1-2 years, max).

 

[dash8driver]

but no one has seen you in your jammies with the airplanes on em...

that very well could be.. but those kinds of statements are provoking the attitudes that are emerging. we will have to see.

most of us are relaxed. i for one am.. since the industry has been circling the drain, i have been busy working on plan's b, c and d...

it would be foolish is say "its just mesa" and question whether they'll be around in 5 years. JO's accused only of being an a$$hole.. not of being stupid. besides... herpes is still around and we've not found a cure for that yet...

I don't really think JO's plan is to lose money for 5 years. I really think that sort of talk is to convince Mesa's insitutional investors that this operation represents a very small portion of Mesa's business, and will at worst lose only a small amount of MAG's overall cash.

Nor do I think he's interested in undercutting Aloha or Hawaiian just for spite . . .and spite it would be, because I think it's highly unlikely that he'll be able to bleed either carrier back into BK with a few beat-up, broken down, APU working "one-day-in-11" CRJs.

If I were a Hawaiian/Aloha pilot, I'd relax and just ignore the whole thing. Remember, JetBlue started with 150 million, a fantastic mangement team, brand new aircraft, and low cost employees. 5 years later, it's an open question as to whether or not they'll be around in another 5. This is MESA . . . we're talking about, not JetBlue.

If you're a tenth as good as you think you are, you'll clean Mesa's clock. If you're in reality just a local monopoly gouging local traffic, well . . . then it might get interesting. Personally, I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle . . . and you'll pull out ahead in short order (1-2 years, max).

 

[RJP]

Nor do I think he's interested in undercutting Aloha or Hawaiian just for spite

So you don't believe that he is pissed at AQ for not letting him buy them when they were seeking investors? That's the story here on the ramp. Suddenly, JO decides that he can offer a 'better product' to the islands after all these years? He's had a look at the books at both AQ and HA and he knows how to hurt them if he really wants. Hence the whole, "I can fly empty airplanes for five years" rhetoric.

Sadly, I think you're confused again.

 

[jetdriven]

But if you only run on one engine......

a lot of our -200's wont make .70 with both engines running. And most of them wont climb above FL320. thats what 27,000 airframe and engine hours gets you.

 

[Soverytired]

I believe the psychological term is "projection" . . . .

JO's low-balled offers before and lost those bids. That's just business. Win some/lose some.

Let me tell you another "story on the ramp" . . . here on the mainland, I've talked to more than a few pilots who are convinced that JO wants to "lose money", so when our contract comes up for amendment in a year, he'll be able to avoid marginal improvements because "we're unprofitable."

That's CRAZY TALK! I mean, set a course to lose 50-100 milliion over the next 2-4 years (much more if you count all the potential business that will go elsewhere over that time if we're perceived as a sinking ship) just to avoid some incremental (and CHEAP) QOL improvements?

Puh-lease. JO has something up his sleeve (I hope). Everyone on the local level is looking at "Go" through their local-issues prism, but only one man has the "big picture.", and really knows what the real reasons are. . . .

So you don't believe that he is pissed at AQ for not letting him buy them when they were seeking investors? That's the story here on the ramp. Suddenly, JO decides that he can offer a 'better product' to the islands after all these years? He's had a look at the books at both AQ and HA and he knows how to hurt them if he really wants. Hence the whole, "I can fly empty airplanes for five years" rhetoric.

Sadly, I think you're confused again.