Instrument Question

[SentryIP]

Cowboys?

Hmmm...you mean a pilot operating within the constraints of the regulations is a cowboy? I would agree with you in certain situations. However, if you plan for it ahead of time and, more importantly, stay within your limits, it would be OK. One should always plan their exits.

 

[MJEPilot]

So

So, are there different rules or thoughts if you are outside the FAF as apposed to the OM. I read all the replies, but most discussed the FAF and not the OM, so I am not sure if the OM would be included in the same regulations that are being applied to the FAF. Thanks.

 

[DC9stick]

The FAF and OM are often confused. the FAF on an ILS approach is the point of Glideslope intercept. the OM is a locator reference.
Exerpt from FAR 121 ( If a pilot has begun the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section and after that receives a later weather report indicating below-minimum conditions, the pilot may continue the approach to DH or MDA. ) Therefore if on an ILS and after intercepting the GS the weather is reported below minimums you may continue the approach and land provided the landing visibility requirements are met. Where is the final approach point on an ILS is a question asked on many interviews.

 

[MJEPilot]

So.........

So, is it correct to state that if I am outside the FAF and the weather goes below mins. then I will not attempt to execute an approach (hold and awaite weather to lift or go to alternate). If I am at the OM and the weather goes below minimums, then I can continue the approach and be ready to execute a missed if the visual references for the runway are not insight. Of course, speaking FAR 121 not 91, because 91 allows one to execute approaches no matter when weather goes 0/0.

 

[flydog]

I agree with BigFlyr. Although not prohibited under Part 91 if the weather is below minimums it makes no sense to shoot an approach you know you cant complete. Its a waste of time, money and a needless risk. Every approach has minute element of risk in that an electrical or instrument failure at close to decision height could stop your clock for good so why chance it. I would exercise better judgement and divert to the alternate or enter a hold if the wx is coming up fast.

Under Part 135/121 its prohibited

 

[FRDOG]

In my company if we are part 91 we shoot the approach. I have always gone down to take a look in personal flying also. It's always tight but half of the time I make it in....yes legally. Remember if you see the Zipper you can go down to 100 above TDZE. From then it's your call. If you can justify 1800RVR or whatever it has to be for that approach then you are legal.
-Dog

 

[FRDOG]

Ok, I re-read the question and would like to revise my answer. I only started going down to 100 above TDZE and to like 50 above if i see the red lights on an ALSF-1-2 when I had like 100 actual under my belt. Before that I was not comfortable doing such low stuff in my 182. (I fly bigger stuff now) Point....50 or even 100 feet at 130kts is low to make a decision on weather or not you're legal to land....only with experience was I comfortable doing stupid sh*t like above. Either way you can't even try it 121 or 135 if you are past GS intercept.
-dog

 

[FRDOG]

rather, you can't try it if you are outside the glide....duh

 

[TurboS7]

First I agree with all of the above. If I had plenty of fuel and I am part 91 I would take the airplane down to minimums, if I had the ALS, approach lights, REILS, I would go down to 100 AFL, if I saw the red terminating bars or runway I would land, if not I would miss. Standby I have to turn the steaks....assuming that I have plenty of fuel I would come back around for a second try. I have found that on the second go usually it can be sucessful. You know the conditions etc. Once we were flying an approach into ROA and missed. The we realized that we were looking for the runway at the wrong place, we caught the lights on the second approach and made it it. The third try---forget it I am out of there no matter what. More people have died on the third try then you can count on your fingers and toes. Speaking of approaches, every professional pilot should have to confidence to fly the aircraft down to zero/zero. If you are in the sim see if the instructor will let you. It is nice to know that you can safely do it if you have too. Steaks are burning..see ya.

 

[Diesel8]

Nice discussion. I'd just like to add something about fuel. Don't forget that on your second + attempts you are cutting into your fuel to fly to an alternate and the 45 minutes plus after that under IFR (if you filed an alternate...). Even if that's plenty fuel...don't forget the follow up "interview" question (hopefully not real life) "and when you get to your alternate, there is a plane geared up on the runway..."
That 45 minutes of fuel might be needed. Just think about those things when you are considering your second, third, fourth... attempts.