How bad would this mess up your career?

bobbysamd

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Career mired in mud

Sorry, couldn't help it. :D

I'll assume for discussion's sake the Captain has Canadian licenses. If I were him I'd send in a CYA NASA report, which might save him from an FAA violation but not a Transport Canada violation.

I'd say this incident could be a career killer or a career truncater. Undoubtedly this incident will show up in NTSB files and elsewhere, so it can be found out. The pilot will have to fess up on applications and face tough interview questions, if he get that far. I know that companies take a dim view of pilots who run their aircraft off paved surfaces, i.e. runways and taxiways. I remember that several years ago some American captain drove his airplane off a taxiway in OKC. One of the mains landed in the mud. I recall in that incident this captain was a short-timer, only a few days away from retirement.
 

ILLINI

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When I was at the University of Illinois a few years ago, President Clinton and Vice President Al Gore came to Champaign on a publicity tour or something. Air Force One flew into/out of CMI and the local news was obviously televising the arrival and departure of the President's B707. As Air Force One was leaving the ramp, the pilot took a turn onto the taxiway a little too tight and ended up putting the right main in the mud! He applied power hoping to get himself out, but didn't have any luck - the mud was up to the rim of the wheel. They had to fly in a backup B707, transfer the President and all his staff to the new plane and departed without incident. The other plane was stuck there over night while they waited for a crane to come and lift it out of the mud.

......I wonder what that pilot is doing now?
 

frank rizzo

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How about a year ago tim mellon ran a boeing727 off the run way and the federales didnt touch him because hes good friends with hanoi jane garvey mellon is the guy who bought the assets of pan am
 

TurboS7

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It is the easiest thing in the world to do.If I had my way I would have a follow-me truck take me to and from the runway anyday. Just a year ago in a blizzard in the NE we started engines and were taxing along the ramp, we were heading to what we thought was the active taxiway till a UPS airplane taxied on the real taxiway. A month later after all the snow was gone I found that we were ready to taxi through a shallow ditch to the active taxiway. Thanks UPS.
 

TurboS7

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Before all you guys start throwing sticks and stones, yes we had the taxi diagram out and were doing all the professional things that professional pilot's do. Sometimes I think that we are expected to do the impossible for all off you that have departed with 6X6X6 in blowing snow and winds over 35Kts. At that point this job becomes no fun...
 

Medivacer

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Paved taxiways, runways?

ohh how I wish sometimes.

Have a good sunday folks.
 

MetroSheriff

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Give it a rest...

Paved taxiways, runways?

ohh how I wish sometimes.

No kidding, after all 300 of your hours, it must be starting to wear on you, huh?
 

Pink Panther

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I see it so many times on the ramp at Dallas love, a lear or MU-2 stuck in the mud.

But is it true that a NASA report can help you avoiding a violation? And what is the theory behind that??
 

Medivacer

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"No kidding, after all 300 of your hours, it must be starting to wear on you, huh?"

Can't you see the humour in anything?

I think it's time you got off your soap box.
 

starchkr

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I have seen many different things involving travel "off road" by pilots.

While training in Austin we had a King Air depart a taxiway into the mud and eventually the pilot ended up collapsing the left main. How i don't know, because i have always thought that the gear should have held up even with all of the power he was using to try to get out. I want to think that maybe the gear was weakened before this incident which makes it a good omen to have happened while trying to get out of the mud versus on a nice hard landing they could have had in the near future.

I have also seen a Chieftain try to use a boundary road to taxi versus the taxiway in heavy snow. It just happens that the airport was more interested in clearing the road than the taxiways. The tower caught the mistake by the pilot and told him to shut it down where he was while they called the FBO to get him pushed back and then towed onto the ramp.

Mistakes happen, even when you are very aware, after all, we are human.

Oh yeah, and even with an airport diagram out for your reference, things do go wrong because they are not always right. IF you don't believe me, look up the Saint Louis Downtown (CPS) airport and look for the taxiway furthest east off of runway 12L - 30R running to the ramp. It's on the map, but in actuality, all that is there is a nice grassy ditch. I speak from experience, and if you look you still might be able to see the skid marks from my Baron crossing the runway and noticing that nothing existed there at the last moment. I am not the only one either, i have been told that another charter company put a lear into that ditch, we had another pilot put a 310 into the mud just before the ditch there, and i have been told there has been more. I did notice however that the airport finally put up a little sign with hash marks, and thats it, to show that nothing is there, just before i left about 3 months ago. But ya know what, it is still there on the most recent charts... you figure some moron would learn that if it is not there, then don't put it there. I guess it takes a real rocket scientist to figure out how to take it off the chart once it is on there. Oh well, just never completely trust your charts, slow down and make sure you are doing the right thing on a piece of pavement that really exists.
 

Bluto

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Illini,
Hey, sorry to be nit-picky, but President Clinton never flew in a B707 as Airforce one. It's a 747. Didn't you see the movie!? ;)
 

ILLINI

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There is a B707 that can be used as Air Force One - I saw it in person. The B747 was too large to fly into Champaign (CMI), so they used the older B707. There are actually a few different B707s and B747s that have the Presidential paint scheme. Any one of them can be used as Air Force One.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/fta/vc137-6.jpg
 

ifly4food

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ILLINI said:
When I was at the University of Illinois a few years ago, President Clinton and Vice President Al Gore came to Champaign on a publicity tour or something. Air Force One flew into/out of CMI and the local news was obviously televising the arrival and departure of the President's B707. As Air Force One was leaving the ramp, the pilot took a turn onto the taxiway a little too tight and ended up putting the right main in the mud! He applied power hoping to get himself out, but didn't have any luck - the mud was up to the rim of the wheel. They had to fly in a backup B707, transfer the President and all his staff to the new plane and departed without incident. The other plane was stuck there over night while they waited for a crane to come and lift it out of the mud.
The best part about that story... Hillary Clinton's quote "There's obviously a conspiracy under the right wing".
 

aero99

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If the president went on a sightseeing trip in a 172 it would be Airforce 1 as long as he is on board.
 

TWA Dude

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Speaking of the 707 at CMI...

I have an amusing addendum to the Presidential 707 stuck at CMI. I was FO in a Saab taxiing out shortly after they reopened the airport. Ground gave us instructions to Runway 22R via A and A4 or A3, our choice, onto the FBO ramp to bypass the blockage. Wanting to get a closer look at the 707 (and thinking perhaps the nine secret-service agents on board might as well), we opted for the more distant A3 turn. Being that it was now dark, we couldn't see beforehand that A3 was barricaded due to proximity to the 707's wingtip. CMI Ground had screwed us! We were trapped with insufficient room for a 180. Ground asked us if we had a problem and I told them to "stand by."

Since we were already very late due to the airport closure we didn't wish to shut down and wait for a pushback. Looking behind us I noticed a driveway perhaps 50 feet back. Too narrow for taxiing, but enough to allow our nosegear to roll onto it for a three-point turnaround. So without further adieu we beta-reversed the Saab and backed up and performed a perfect three-point turnaround! Without saying a word to Ground we continued on our way to 22R. Ground came on the radio, "we just wanted you guys to know we had about ten guys up here watching and that's about the darnest things I've seen." I replied, "Did we pass the driving test?"
 
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ShawnC

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Pinkpanther heres the exact text about the immunity from the NASA ASRS forms.

For more information visit http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov
I keep at least 2 forms in my flight bag incase something happens during the flight that I feel needs to be corrected.

The filing of a report with NASA concerning an incident or occurrence involving a violation of 49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, or the FAR is considered by FAA to be indicative of a constructive attitude. Such an attitude will tend to prevent future violations. Accordingly, although a finding of violation may be made, neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be imposed if:
the violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;
the violation did not involve a criminal offense, or accident. or action under 49 U.S.C. Section 44709 which discloses a lack of qualification or competency, which is wholly excluded from this policy;
the person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action to have committed a violation of 49 U.S.C. Subtitle VII, or any regulation promulgated there for a period of 5 years prior to the date of occurrence; and
the person proves that, within 10 days after the violation, he or she completed and delivered or mailed a written report of the incident or occurrence to NASA under ASRS. See paragraphs 5c and 7b.
Note: Paragraph 9 does not apply to air traffic controllers. Provisions concerning air traffic controllers involved in incidents reported under ASRS are addressed in FAA Order 7210.3.
 

James007

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Thanks everyone for replying , I found that to be informative and humorus.
 
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