Hey...nice logbook

eriknorth

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Ok, I've done some previous post research on logbooks, but I'm not getting the answer I want. I am about to start my flight training to get my PPL in about two weeks. I am debating on whether or not to get a nicer logbook from the start, such as the Pro Jepp logbook. I know it might be overkill to start, but I plan on flying for a living, and I am quite the perfectionist, meaning that I would like to have a clear, organized logbook. Looking back in your careers, would you have rather had your time nicer in a better logbook from the start?
 

AWACoff

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It doesn't matter. My first logbook has whiteout, scratchouts, mistakes... Get a big or little logbook. Use a pen.
 

banned username 2

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If you're gonna do this as a career, just get the big book...

And I would also recommend looking into one of the Computer Logbooks and start that from day one... I am now facing the daunting task of entering 7,000 hours into one (and that is delaying my decision to get one)...

Good Luck and Fly Safe!
 

bobbysamd

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Logbooks

Appreciating your point of view and desire for perfectionism, you can start out with one of the big logbooks, if you'd like. You might like the Jeppesen logbook. The Jepp books have the basic signoffs for the various certificates and ratings already printed in squares in the back. All your instructor(s) has to do is fill them in as you progress through your training. It keeps things very organized.

As a practical matter, though, you might be buying a lot of unused columns for a first logbook. Really, one of the little logbooks is adequate for when you're just starting. You can buy a bigger logbook later.

Either way is fine, really.
 

avbug

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I would recommend getting a smaller logbook. I thought I'd be smart and get a big one when I got my first commercial job, and it took about ten years to fill that one. By the time It was done, it had been through some forty moves or so, was falling apart, and looks like it survived (barely) garbagestock 1985.

The smaller logs will fill a little more quickly, won't get as beaten up, and then you can file them away for the time when you're flying enough to fill the big one more quickly.

The logs that Sporty's sells are good quality logs, last a very long time, and have a lot more room to add your own columns.
 

ShawnC

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Use a little Logbook, many of my friends have the big logbook and they are barely even touched it during their four years at Riddle, they still have 3/4s of it free but they have to lug that the big thing everywhere that they go.

As far as all those columns, don't worry about it, if you want to start flying gliders(or seaplanes, whatever) start a second logbook(specfic for that type of flying), same thing with other forms of flying, it will make your life much easier.

One thing that I am considering now though is to buy one of those master logbooks and writing all my stuff in there. So that way I do have a single book with all my totals and entries. But I would still actively only use my small logbooks. Though I am considering getting a palm pilot and just do electronic logging. It has some of the advantages of having all the small logbooks, I can filter it out and show only entries from a praticular Catorgy of aircraft. Even the specfic make and model.

Now keeping it neat and organized is up to you, you must insist and check every entry before you sign it. Double check the math before you do the totals, everything is up to you.

Personally whenever I get a new logbook I number all the pages, that way if I have a checkout at a FBO and they ask if I have expierence in that type of aircraft I can just pull out the sticky note it I do and show them the apporiate pages.
 
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F/O

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Buy a small one with white pages to start with. That will take you well into your first CFI job. Then after that buy an ASA "Standard Pilot's Master Log". Buy a box of black fine tip pens at Office Depot and always use those same pens in your log.

Do NOT under any circumstances buy any log book with green pages. They just look goofy and if you want to white out small writing mistakes (not large errors or flight time errors, cross those out and write the correction neatly next to it) you will be unable to do so.

If you want to use a computer logbook co-currently with your paper log, update it frequently. You don't want to go back 5000 hours later to put all the time in.
 

Anaconda

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get the big jepp logbook. so what if it takes you ten years to fill it up? it's a very nice logbook with lots of room for growth. plenty of columns for gliders, helos, whatever. why have a seperate logbook for each type?

over the course of nine interviews, i always found it humorous that all of us clones had the little logbook from our student pilot days and the big jepp logbook as well. my little logbook looks immature, and is messy. i'm embarassed to show it, but they want to see them all.

oh yeah, they also make "green" whiteout if you are inclined to use it.

i concur with getting the computer logbook. i wish i had one, they make filling out the flight time grids on apps a lot easier.
 

F/O

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Yes, they do make "greenout." I tried it in my student pilot logbook; the problem is it never exactly matches the green logbook page color. If you aren't careful it will look worse. White is much easier and "safer" to work with.

Let me take this opportunity to reiterate what I said above about only whiting out writing errors,etc, etc. If you show up to an airline interview with a logbook full of white out, including flight time totals, etc they will question your attention to detail and probably your honesty as well. Use your own judgement.
 

Timebuilder

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My vote goes for the Big Book and Logbook Pro for your computer. Do the update every day you fly to keep data entry from getting away from you.

Green white-out, called "Ledger Green" can be ordered through Staples or Office Depot.

Get the box of pens, too, Sanford Uniball Micro, in Black, of course.
 

ShawnC

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Why have one for each type, pure and simple diffrent types of flying need diffrent information to log. For gliders you need the current total number of flights (no need to log landings those are mandatory), type of tow, tow altitude, max altitude. You can't really fit that in a normal logbook and on top of that have the normal set if comments.

So I figure if I have to have more than one log book might as well do it for each diffrent type, that way you can easily tell exactly how much you have of each.


I have yet to find a computer logbook that I like, each one has its ups and downs.

Now if one made one where you could have the idea of having mulitple logbooks (each one oriented to the type of flying that it would log) but would add together to form one master log of time. Thats what I want.
 

bigr

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Database

have any of you guys made your own custom computer logbook with an off the shelf database? just curious
 

Timebuilder

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I started to configure Excel for it, but it would have taken too much time and effort.

I'd rather be flying.
 

Anaconda

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shawn, it has been awhile since i flew gliders, but are all of the items you mentioned logging required? i'm not asking to slam anything you wrote, i'm simply curious. i don't remember logging max alt or tow alt, but it has been many years since i did it and i don't the logbook with me. and yeah, it's a separate logbook :)

f/o, thanks for the additional comments about whiteout. i should have included that as well. it is definitely not the recommended way to fix errors or typos in your logbook, at least that's what the so-called experts say.

i've been wondering about the database logbook myself. based upon my limited knowledge of access, it seems as if you could do it, but i don't have the patience or the time now to do it. i guess most people would just rather pay for something like that...
 

avbug

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Don't keep separate logs for different kinds of flying. Simply because you fly different categories or classes of aircraft, don't keep a separate log for each one. There is no point, it's far from standard, and looks very unusual. It also makes tracking information much more difficult...particularly for an interviewer.

If you fly gliders, balloons, seaplanes, multi engine land airplanes, and helicopters, keep it all in one spot. I do. It's far better to track. All your endorsements, your records, your evidence of currency, etc, is in one place, and this is the purpose of a logbook.

A word on whiteout. Don't use it. Ever. A logbook is a legal document, and whiteout or correction fluid should never be used. Use a single line through your error, and initial the line, then write in the correct information in the adjacent space. But do NOT use whiteout, greenout, or any other material to cover up and hide. It looks unprofessional, gives the appearance of untidiness, and also looks as though one is covering something up.

When an error is made on a legal document, one should not hide the error. Think full disclosure; a logbook is intended to be maintained the same way. One line through the error, and always initial the correction. Don't hide or cover up material; if necessary, just make a new entry. Corrections to logbooks later on should be done in the same manner. Cite page numbers, and what it is that you're correcting, and you can accomplish large corrections on a single line entry in the log. It's discreet and unobtrusive, and looks professional. More imporatantly, it's expected.
 

ShawnC

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No, not really required, but helpful for remembering some of your better flights (ie most altitude gained). But the type of tow is required.

The biggest thing about the glider logbook is that its more efficent to see exactly your number of flights, including what type of launch. It hard to do that when you have it logged in a general logbook.

The reason I use multiple logbooks, for the type of flying there just isn't enough room in the standard logbook, maybe one of these days when I get one of those large ones that have columns for everything I will bring it all together in a single logbook (except my glider, that will always be seperate).
 

eriknorth

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About the pens-I have always been able to write neater and easier with the Dr. Grip type of pen, or the regular bic stick pens. Now the pens that Timebuilder mentioned are fade resistant and acid free, but does it matter what type of pen to write with? Has anyone experienced any problems using the free hotel pens with the fading or acidity? Again, I'm looking ahead to the overall preservation and presentation of this logbook to the big boys, when the time comes...
 

bayoubandit

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My $.02, buy what ever one you wish in whatever colors you like. I would not use white out of any sort, but make a nice line through any errors you have made. Logbooks are like checkbooks, your going to screw something up. No big deal, we all do it. To much white out and things start looking funny. Perhaps falsified because you can't tell what was there to begin with. Take it for what it's worth! many here will probably disagree with me. But that's what interviewers and a few different articles I've read had said.

More importantly, make photo copies of everything you log in that book and keep them in a safe place. I keep copies at my parents house in the extreme event my house burns down, my logbooks and copies don't go together.

After writing all this, I realize Avbug has already said most of this stuff. It's good advice!

Good luck and have fun!

BTW, it doesn't matter what type of pen you use, what color you use, or what brand you use. Keep the logbook clean and as orderly as you can, and you will be in good shape. Don't worry about using stencil's or some rediculous manner to make it look perfect. A perfect logbook is unrealistic and a bit suspect IMHO.
 
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avbug

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Erik,

Honestly, you're thinking about this way too much. That's okay, it's what student pilots do. You'll also soon be stuffing your flight bag with every chart, gadget, holder, kneeboard, manual, and cloud level finder known to Man, God, and Sporty's. It's a natural evoloution of learning to fly.

However, don't get too wrapped up in how your logbook goes. Two thousand hours from now and five years down the line, the interviewer isn't going to say, "wow, as a student pilot he kept such nice logs. And my, look at the ink!" Don't worry about it. Do avoid whiteout, and use black pen instead of pencil, but otherwise, do as you like.

I have a logbook crammed with pictures of airplanes; little snapshots taken here or there. I am not a picture taking person normally, and these represent the sum total of my souvineers from a seventeen year stretch in one book...but the point is that it's your logbook. Keep it interesting, professional, and neat, but don't get too wrapped up in the details of ink, pens, or even necessarily the type of logbook.

14 CFR 61.51 spells out what you must log, and gives you the guidelines. After that, it's your book, and you keep it as it pleases you.

Incidentally, I've had more of those uniball pens blow up on me (literally) at altitude and get ink everywhere, than any other kind. Usually no fanfare; the pens working just fine one moment, and then my hand is covered in black ink the next. I don't carry them any more. I'm not a pen snob, but I've taken a liking to the G2 gel pens (dunno who makes them). Until a few days ago, anyway, when I got red ink all over the white sleeve of a uniform shirt. I spent the day having everyone asking me where I was bleeding.

Truthfully, check most any pilots shirt pocket, and you won't find expensive, nice flowing pens. You'll find something half chewed with a motel logo on it. I have a whole pile of hotel pens right here by my computer as the sad evidence of far too much time spent on the road.

Sometimes the most authentic signature in the logbook is the unspoken proof of a dozen different types of ink, of changes in handwriting due to being in a rush, being tired, being whatever. It shoes variety, it shows elapsed time, and it shows an interviewer that it's real and not a cobbled forgery. Be yourself, use whatever is handy to write, and remember, it's a logbook, not a bible. (Bibles don't have enough columns, and it's hard to get everything in between the margins). Done properly, however, your logbooks may one day be cherished keepsakes for your kids. Keep it real, and have some fun. Your log is more than a preparation for an interview; it's a bank for memories.
 

ShawnC

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Your best bet just try to keep it the same color and I think that anybody will be happy (you should see the look on the examiners face when he saw hot pink in my logbook :) )
 
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