Hello Lakers!

fly26

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Would any of you agree that it is time to dump the Teamsters and get an aviation union in their place? I can't think of one useful thing they have done for us, outside of sending us their trucking magazine each month.

Would those "in the know" please explain how you go about getting rid of the Teamsters.

We are now ONE YEAR past the contract expiration date. The Teamsters don't appear to be in any hurry to negotiate a new deal. Meanwhile the company appears to have thrown the old contract in the garbage.

Most of us are going to be at GLA for longer than expected now so we might as well make it a better place to work!
 

Cornelius

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I agree totally with the teamsters deal. They really do have no business being the union for GLA pilots or pilots in general. I was with you only a short time which ended in late june waiting for the IAPC in Cheyenne. Are there any other airlines represented by the Teamsters because I don't think there are. I'm sorry you're stuck in a tight spot but I would be more than happy right now to be flying with you guys/gals instead of flight instructing.

Good luck with everything.
 

ClassG

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Let's spend dues to hire our own lawyer

I'm personally ashamed to call myself a member of the Teamsters Pilot Union because of the way our interests are handled by that rganization. I realize WE are the Union, but our money is wasted each and every month, and we are not acting to recover the services we pay for. SOOO, let's us stop paying Union Dues and start putting that cash toward hiring our own Labor Lawyer to do the work Teamsters isn't now, never was, and (I fear) never will.

Just a thought.

I've seen privately funded political action groups make a ton more progress on much larger issues in shorter time. It's a joke. Voss only seems to listen to the FAA (in which case we need to start reporting all company violatons and safety issues directly) and the Courts (in which case we need more legal documents crossing Voss' desk.) With enough legal pressure from a private attorney who specializes in Labor we'd make more waves than the Union guys have done n the 2 years I've been around.

The ONLY problem will be the protection afforded us now by the Railway Labor Act as we are Union members. We'd have t find out how to retain that protection during the transiton to non-union. The new contract language would provide it from then on.
:(
 

fly26

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I do not think that our pilot group is organized enough to form our own union and make it work. As soon as the job market opens up again, people will be bailing left and right like before and we have not had the continuity of union reps to get anything done in the past. I think that we need the expertise and experience that an aviation union such as ALPA would provide.

I was working during the big meeting in Denver but is it true that the Teamsters are doing NOTHING about the 3 days unpaid in Sept.?
 

eddie

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Isn't Horizon with Teamsters?

ALPA doesn't always work hard for the little guys, look at TSA.
 

TSA ERJ

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I'm not sure what you mean by look at TSA. The company tried to go way overboard with concessions after 9/11 and our reps took a stand. Yes, we have guys on furlough that wouldn't be otherwise, I'm one of the furloughed, but the pilot group will be stronger and in a better position when this is all over.

What we need to remember is that our union reps are who get things done, not the union execs at the national offices. If things are not getting done at your airline you need to talk to your elected representatives. It doesn't matter if you are represented by ALPA, the Teamsters or the International Brotherhood of Sanitary Workers, elected leaders at your airline are what makes the difference.

I have been very happy with the representation provided by the TSA Master Executive Council of ALPA.
 

eddie

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I was referring to what happened during the contract negotiations in 2000. The MEC sold the senior turboprop guys way short.

I agree with you that local representation will make or break any negotiations with management, but ALPA doesn't typically spend the big bucks to help out the regionals.

Find out how many lawyers TSA ALPA has working for the pilot group. Last I knew there was one, and he was assigned another regional at the same time. I doubt that happens at an airline where the % of each pilot's paycheck brings in more money.

I don't know much about Teamsters, but for Great Lakes, the grass may not be greener.
 

JGonzo

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Bailing Out?

Excuse me while I throw my 2cents in on this one. I know the reply is late, oh well.
Many of you New Lakers have no idea why the Teamsters were chosen to represent the Pilot group at GLA. (I was just entering the property when they voted the Union in.) To the best of my fading memory, here is a recap.
Both Unions were asked to come to Spencer to pitch there side.
ALPA stood there and said,"choose us because we're ALPA". The ALpa rep. put very little effort in researchig the GLA/GLA Pilot issues. The GLA pilots were totally unimpressed with what ALPA had to say or offer.
On the other hand, the Teamster Rep. had done his homework, and threw out an incredibly impressive pitch! The decision was easy. To the best of my knowledge, no pilot had voted for ALPA representation.
The Pilot group was fairly strong back then(1997), there were some senior Lakers and as long as nobody(the other airlines) was going gangbusters on recruitment, they were determined to get the MISER to cough up some decent benefits.
Then came the Hire craze!!! Internal representation had floundered & Don Trichler noticed the lack of solidarity within the GLA pilot group. So he turned his back on the group through sloppy, dated, and sometimes nonexistant communication. I know that he was willing to go all out for us at one point in time, but the lack of solidarity frightened him. He was not willing to do battle all by himself.
There are some Obvious factors that play a part in Strong Representation. Longevity of the Pilot group is #1, so you Lakers will start to see an upward trend in Union involvement. When the trend starts, it will take alot of effort to kick the Teamsters around on their perception of the GLA Pilot group. Then it will be important to reorganize the Group and seek out the pilots that are willing to chair a committee and then start to COMMUNICATE effectively. I can't remember the GLA800Hotline number but I would bet that thing RARELY if ever gets updated!
I could go on and on but the fact is that if the group has no solidarity then NO form of representation will help, and I would be willing to put alot on that last statement.
Thats my 2
GONZO
 

Marko Ramius

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Jeff, thanks for posting what I was too lazy too! That pretty much sums up the union situation at Lakes. Once Harrington and Liggett left, things started sliding bigtime. The biggest problem I saw, and still see was weak communication. The hotline never got updated, all the newsletters were out of date, and I never could figure out how whoever was running the union got to their position. I don't remember any elections. Without communication, things fall apart quickly. The only way to get info is if you happen to be in the release room when somebody "in the know" is around. As for Trychler, I lost all respect for that guy after listening to him at a meeting prior to opening up the contract negotiations. He didn't seem to have a clue about what market rates for 19 and 30 seat turboprop pilots were. They seemed to pulling proposed payrates out of the air. I suggested a year 1 captain pay rate that shocked him, until I told him it was 5% greater than CoEx's payrate for the same aircraft from a 3yr old contract. It also bugged me when he made a tough speech about how he wanted to get the schedules written the way the contract specifies(85-95 hours), but seemed opposed to stricter language and penalties to achieve this. His reason was that he didn't want to penalize the people that wanted to fly 120 a month. You can't do both. He also said that we would be recieving stickers for our flight bags supporting our contract fight about 2 weeks after that meeting. It's been over a year and half, anyone have one yet? That stuff aside, you are correct that the union is only strong as its membership. People have to get involved and people have to fly the current contract not just give lip service to it. Without that, no union will help. The biggest problem with Teamsters seems to be that they don't devote enough of their national resources and time to their airline division. TI heard that they don't even have enough money to go to court on the 9/11 grievances. That's where ALPA could help, all they do is airlines and they have a greater wealth of info. Sure they may not come running to help a small airline like Lakes, but membership will get you access to the library of info. It'll probably be up to some ambitious soul in the membership to take it upon themselves to dig out the relevant info, but it's better than the current situation. I understand that many regional carriers are dissapointed with ALPA and I can see why, it's just that Lakes hasn't even caught up to those carriers old contracts let alone have the luxury to complain about what they do. Step one is getting invloved, followed by better communication, flying the contract, and then you can talk about switching representation and ramifications therof.
 

JGonzo

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Marko.It was amazing to me the amount of help the ALPA group was willing to hand us. Heck, the Pilots at NWA gave us their ProStan manual, and when I finally started editing the thing, the UAL Denver Chairman (Young Cage) spent a great deal of time helping me out. They were even willing to let us attend the ALPA
Prostan annual meetings. Fact is , they know that the pilot group at GLA will most likely wind up at some ALPA property in the future. I'd be willing to bet that ALPA would be more than happy to share the wealth of info that they have , so long as it does'nt dent the ol pocketbook. Why? Because were all pilots. And NO Pilot wants to see another pilot group take it in the shorts.
End result, and I said it when I was there, better to not split the GLA pilot group up with a coup. Build a strong membership, then decide if the need for new representation outweighs the current & past experiences of the 747.
Gonzo
I do remember the COEx pay scale being brought up at the meeting. He(D.T.) was pretty clueless. In the short time I was there, I could fill volumes with gripes on his lousy/nonexistant help.
 

Marko Ramius

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Jeff, I remember your prostan work and the NWA stuff, I guess I just never put it together where you got the info from. If they'll provide the info to get Lakes through the current situation, all the better. I would also agree that the vote to change representation should occur during less turbulent(contract wise) times, if at all possible.
 

ifly4food

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ALPA isn't without it's problems.
They hosed us at ASA and CMR by negotiating Delta scope without our input and refused to even let out MEC comment. Then they ignored the following grievances filed on the grounds of the scope violating our contract.
ALPA works for the major airlines who pay 75% of the dues. When push comes to shove, they aren't there for us "little guys"
As for Lakes, the best thing you can do now is pull together and get something on paper that resembles a contract.
I know this pretty much died during the mass exodus last fall when Sid D. left, but you all need to get something. Keeping the Teamsters might be the best thing to do for now.
G' luck
Seee Youuuuuuuuuu!
 

Marko Ramius

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Ahh, but therein lies the rub. While your point is certainly valid, airlines like ASA and Comair are arguing big fish issues like scope, but I bet their basic contacts are more solid than Lakes. Are they United or Delta contracts no, but I bet there is far less ambiguity and the like. Lakes needs to get the basic level of the other regionals. I know the current contract was Lakes' first, but I have to wonder whether or not Teamsters legal has the pilot contract knowledge that ALPA does.
 

ifly4food

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Marko Ramius said:
Ahh, but therein lies the rub. While your point is certainly valid, airlines like ASA and Comair are arguing big fish issues like scope, but I bet their basic contacts are more solid than Lakes. Are they United or Delta contracts no, but I bet there is far less ambiguity and the like. Lakes needs to get the basic level of the other regionals. I know the current contract was Lakes' first, but I have to wonder whether or not Teamsters legal has the pilot contract knowledge that ALPA does.
Yes Sir! You are correct!
 

TurboS7

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You guys voted them in-have fun. We had a teamster vote and we all got together and wrote in our vote for a in-house union and beat them. But now they are trying to come back on the property and we have a lot of young flyers that just don't know any better. Truckers hate airplane drivers-pilot's need to realize that.
 

AWACoff

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I believe Lakes would also have to be without representation for 1 year after voting the Teamsters out. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. Sid Viscious and I were talking about it in IMT one day. Did he get furloughed from Champion? Lakes was by far the most fun place to work...dang I miss you guys!
See Yoooooooooooo!
PS. Juanito kicks A$$!!!
 

ifly4food

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AWACoff said:
Lakes was by far the most fun place to work...dang I miss you guys!
See Yoooooooooooo!
PS. Juanito kicks A$$!!!
Ditto on that. Most fun job I've ever had.
I wonder what happened to Juanito?
See Youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
 

fly26

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ifly4food,

Cool picture of Meigs. Mayor Daley and Gov. Ryan finally announced a deal for ORD expansion that involves keeping Meigs operating. The Meigs will stay open until 2026 --- but there is a clause that allows for the state to close it after 2006 if the Illinois General Assembly votes to close it.

Fontaine was quoted in the Chicago Tribune last week saying that GLA had no plans to go back to CGX if it was kept open because of increased competition by Chicago Express flying SPI to Midway with really low fares.

Appears that Meigs will survive another close call!
 

fly26

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Gonzo,

To follow up on your post --- I was not here when the Teamsters were voted in several years ago. I do know that when I first started working here we had a Teamster guy that was respected and did assist us in matters and he died about 2 years ago (the name escapes me---maybe his name was Hank). Since then, we get ZERO help from the Teamsters.

Anyway, as you pointed out the turnover at GLA has been incredible over the last couple years and that has provided for little to no continuity in the union representation. Right now, we have a big communication gap amongst the pilot group with our reps and as somebody else mentioned, the only way you find out anything is if you run into one of the union guys in the release room.

It seems that we are so completely unorganized that we need some leadership from an ***aviation*** union to bring us back on track to establish some goals regarding the contract and get moving in the right direction. For the last year we've been just treading water. In the long run it's the pilot's that can make things happen not the union personnel. But clearly we need some assistance.
 
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