? for 1900 drivers

chperplt

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I fly (121) into some airfields with runways 4-5K feet in length. Our take off data cards are weight specific, and do not account for BFL.. Our Opspecs do not adequately cover the topic.

I've suggested to a few people that we use 80K as a standard V1 for everything short of an engine failure while utilizing these runways during the winter months. Some agree, but most don't..

What do you all think?
 

StaySeated

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I have a feeling that your data actually does account for a balanced field, it is just that the runway length is almost never a limiting factor for v1 in the 1900.

I had the same debate, after coming from a MEI job, it was very difficult to have the same v1 on a 12000 foot runway and on a snow covered 5000 foot runway.

The bottom line is, it your data says v1 is "x" don't change it. You can successfully abort up to that point and still stop.

If you are bored, look in the AFM and use the numbers that the company that made your data used. Figure out acc-stop length and take the hit for contaminated surface. Actuallly, the data that you have takes into account much more than airplane performance from the AFM. A survey is done at every airport to include obstacles to gurantee OEI obstacle clearance. You may find that at some airports you are not good on a runway even though it is plenty long enough. THis is usually due to an obstacle somwhere in the flight path below accel. height.
 

1800 RVR

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As a former 1900 pilot, I don't know if that would be good idea. Even if you decide to abort the T/O befor the calculated V1, this a/c would probably stop in most instances. Now, as for your scenario (winter, short strips, etc) I would still not recommend changing the V1 to an arbitrary 80 kts. Remember, you are flying 121 which requires you to have precise data. If you have a fed on board jumpseating, and in your pre-t/o brief, you state that V1 is 80 kts, and the data is different, then you will be facing nasty questions after the flight. What our company used to do is use 80 kts as a "decision point", subject to PIC discresion, to say that for any annunciator light after 80 kts, the T/O will be continued, excluding engile failure, fire, or loss of directional control. But never was 80 kts used as a V1.
 

I.P. Freley

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Another former 1900 driver here.

In my company, we had an 80 knot callout, but V1 was always, as I recall, around 100 knots (I think the max weight V1 was 102). Our t/o brief called for aborting the takeoff above 80 knots (up to V1) only for engine fire, engine failure, dual system failure, low oil pressure (on either engine), or other aircraft abnormality.

Although I have never understood NOT aborting takeoffs up until rotation speed if there is sufficient runway remaining (think about a 12,000ft runway, there's PLENTY of room), I will say that I have done a couple of actual V1 cuts and this thing is a total no-brainer to fly on that one engine... Noticeably easier than the simulators, to be perfectly honest.

So... While you shouldn't take this action on your own (just try explaining yourself to the always-helpful FAA if something "happens"), it's pretty much the same as when I was flying the thing. Only abort the takeoff above 80kts if there's a major problem or indication that there COULD BE a major problem. Just remember that you get to write it up if you abort the takeoff, unnecessarily or not, not to mention needing a new release.
 

chperplt

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I understand what everyone is saying, and thanks.

As I go through my first east coast winter, it's unnerving. I have nearly 1000 hours in the aircraft. I know for a fact that an abort near V1 on a runway 5000 feet in length, with snow and ice on the surface will put me through the fence.. I'll open the book up when I get to work and find the actual accel stop numbers.
 

Cardinal

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Not only through the fence, chperplt, but also over the cliff, think departure end of 35 at AUG. It's a downsloping runway, to top it off.

In an aircraft like the mighty beech can you get yourself in a sling with the authorities in the case of an abort above V1 despite having plenty of runway and a pretty good reason?
 

chperplt

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Thanks Cardinal

I was trying to NOT think of 35 in AUG...

I'm trying to learn as much as I can every time I fly, and some of these things don't seem to add up very well.

It doesn't help either that the braking action is usually being called fair to poor when in actuality nil is too good for it.
 

N215CJ

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Why don't you ask Jose C
He may shed some light on the subject but then again he may just tell you a story....
The Numbers are to live by...Arbitrary numbers will certainly get you in trouble...
 

Groucho

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1900, V1, 2, Accel stop, bal field.....

Way back when I was a wipper-snapper commin up in da aviation bidness I leart dat V1 was V1 and that's all there is to it!!!

I just came from a recurrent sim session on a boeing product with my company and we spent a lot of time discussing the "TPS", Takeoff performance stystem. TPS is a Sabre product attached to all sabre flight plans, if the aircraft data is stored, that gives an unbelieveable number of combinations of flap, weight, second segment, min V1, improved flap and on and on.

Way back when i learnt one way to do it but now with dem computers n stuff you have all types of APPROVED Data to select from. Reading the print out is almost as hard as reading a complex METAR.

The point is that many old rules of perforamnce and strick adherence to methods have been superceded with the advent of runway specific data based aircraft performance data. HOWEVER , iffin you don't got all dat fancy stuff then you best stick to the books and old rules, they still work.
 
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