Fedex vs UPS

Gumbydammit

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Looking for input as to who is better to work for: Fedex or UPS...both seem like great companies, but UPS appears to have the edge on retirement, work rules, and pay. Fedex looks like a better deal for first year pay and future expansion.
 

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Shem Malmquist
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UPS might have a slight edge in pay, but how could you possibly construe better retirement and workrules? FedEx has an A-fund, UPS A-fund is a fraction of the size and offset by social security, UPS B-fund is bigger, but that's a lot of eggs in one basket, the overall mix for the FedEx retirement is a lot better, IMO. As to work rules, the list is too long to type here.
 

SpeedRacer

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FedEx vs UPS

Do you really want to wear a brown uniform and shoes - AND a hat!!!!:p
 

BrownTailGuy

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Alright so they get to wear leather jackets, no hat and fly around in purple airplanes. Does that make them better? Maybe they don't wear hats because most of their new hires are over 40 and losing their hair and the hat will cause substantial hair loss?

As far as the retirement goes I believe that whoever has the most recent contract will have the better pay and better retirement. Our contract comes due in 2003 and the retirement package is the number 1 issue on the table for the pilots, so that will be addressed.

Here is some info on UPS that some may not know.
1. We get paid the same no matter what plane you fly. So even the 727 guys/gals get widebody pay. Not bad
2. New hire pay sucks, but it is for 1 year and in the long run who really cares?
3. We operate about 40% of our flying daytime and 60% night time. (Not sure what the mix is at FedEx?)
4. Plus we get to wear brown clothes, brown shoes and a brown hat. And we have cool trucks.

IMHO, I would asy that you can't go wrong with either company should you be lucky enough to land a job. You will have a stable job for the rest of your flying career, and you don't have to worry about flight attendants?????

Good Luck
 

KingAirGuy

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Another thing!

Lets not forget UPS is Has Dale Jaret to drive the truck! Go DJ! Lets hope he wins this weekend at Daytona!
 

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Shem Malmquist
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We will see what happens wrt the retirement. Part of it is in the negotiating time frame and part of it is in the desires of the pilot group. That's why a few of the airlines, like NWA, DAL and US have traditionally highly loaded their A funds with little or no B fund, while others, like AA, UA and UPS have done the opposite. Which is a good idea depends on many variables that have to be in place when you personally retire.

FedEx day/night mix used to be more like UPS before the USPS contract. Now the domestic mix is a lot closer to 50/50.

As to other work rules, I'm referring to such things as allowing the company to deadhead you on company aircraft, hotel selection, etc. Also, do UPS pilots still have to dress up for recurrent ground school and other training activities?

I agree that both are good solid companies, so all of this is picking nits.
 

Browntothebone

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Food for thought!

Here are some key numbers from a BusinessWeek article from May 2001.

UPS VS Fed EX

Founded 1907 / 1971
2000 Revenue 29.77 billion vs 18.3 billion
Net Income 2.93 billion vs 688 million
Employees 359,000 vs 215,000
Daily Volume 13.2 million vs 5 million
Fleet 152,500 Trucks vs 43,500 Trucks
560 Planes vs 662 Planes

Revenue Growth 8 % vs 6.25 %
Operating Margin 15 % vs 7 %
Return on Equity 28 % vs 14%

UPS earns more on each package here's why

Air Deliveries, U.S.
Fed Ex unit cost $15.27 Unit profit $.93 oper margin 6% Avg Vol 2.9Mil

UPS unit cost $14.60 unit profit $3.76 oper margin 22% avg vol 2.1 Mil

Ground Delivery U.S.

Fed Ex cost $4.77 profit $.68 margin 13% volume1.5 Mil
UPS cost $4.95 profit $.61 margin 11% volume 11 Mil

Overall Avg, Incl International

Fed Ex Cost $11.89 Profit $.85 Margin 7% Volume 4.7 Mil
UPS Cost $6.65 Profit $1.17 Margin 15% Volume 14.2 MM

To make a long story short UPS makes $1.17 on every package whereas Fed only makes $.85 on its packages.

That means UPS pockets $.32 more on every package and UPS delivers 10 million more packages on avg.

Additionally UPS Logistics Business is growing at 40% per year while Fed Ex is trying to stop a decline in their logistics business.

UPS overnight business is growing at 8% compared to Fed Ex 3.6% and this is Fed Ex bread and butter.

Fed Ex is dependant on Planes in its business model which is much more expensive than UPS reliance on ground deliveries and as you can see from the above numbers Fed Ex is no where near it its ability to deliver on the ground.

The article is about 5 pages and really breaks down the two companies.

You can get it on line from the Business Week web sight. The article is from May 21 2001.

Seems as though, even with the "overpaid" Teamsters, we are competing rather well.
 

Vprof

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AAMEN Browntothebone (CHEW'em Up SPIT'em OUT)!
 

AlbieF15

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For all you guys at UPS--good for you! You have a great job with a great company. Now go get a WORLD CLASS contract so FPA/ALPA or whoever negotiates with FedEx in 2004 can use your efforts as a benchmark for our new contract.

As for all the wannabes out there....company email says FedEx will hire 250 more this year. Not much hiring info on UPS, but it sounds like things are stagnant...at least for now. Just like the guys who compare FedEx to Delta, or United and American verses Southwest and JetBlue...you are p!ssing in the wind. Fedex, JetBlue, Airtran, and Southwest are the only guys hiring at the moment. If you want to work there...apply. If you ONLY want to work for AA, UAL, UPS, or DAL...you better have a backup plan for while.

The old Air Force axiom of "Flexibility is the Key to Airpower" certainly seems to apply to an airline career as well. May I suggest you apply to several carriers...and when you have 2 offers then agonize over your choice? I'm thrilled to be at FedEx, but UPS is a great company. If UPS was hiring and FedEx wasn't, I doubt I'd have held off applying to UPS simply because I liked FedEx.

If you want to fly freight, here is the good news. There are now 2 big players in the market. UPS competes with FedEx, and FedEx competes with UPS. There is a certain stabilty in the competition between the two companies. I like the odds at going 25 years with either one. On the other hand, the dog eat dog buy out dog eat dog getting eaten by another dog people moving business is a TOUGH game. I've met enough ex-Pan Am, ex-Braniff, and ex-Eastern guys in our training department to start to really appreciate the opportunity I have been given in the cargo business. Here's hoping there is enough business for all of us...

Fly safe.
 

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Shem Malmquist
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No doubt that UPS is a strong company. No doubt about job security at UPS. Also, UPS pilots are some of the best guys/gals I have had the pleasure to associate with, and I hope the group continues to make great strides in their contracts, they 100% deserve it! UPS is a harder company to work for, the management just is a bit tougher, overall, fewer "creature comforts", etc.

However, in terms of the outlook of the companies, I don't think you can base it on that article comparing FedEx to UPS above. It's about a year old now and while it is true that a lot of analysts at that time were questioning the FedEx strategy, that situation has changed somewhat. Those issues were also reflected in the stock prices of the two companies at the time. A quick search of more recent articles will paint a much different picture, and that is also reflected in the current stock prices of the two companies...
 

Browntothebone

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Words of Wisdom from the founder of UPS




The origins of UPS's corporate culture come from the practical and philosophical insights of its founder Jim Casey. He had an unusual ability to convey the core values of the company.

Inspired Management
"A company must create a succession of leaders and managers who are inspired by dedication to principle, to people and to service."

Respect for the individual
"I envisage our organization as a means through which each member should be able to achieve a good measure of personal satisfaction and at the same time aid in the advancement of the interests of all the rest of us."

Business ethics
"Once the people you deal with come to recognize that what you do springs from an honest heart, they will be surprisingly strong in their support of you. They will believe what you say. They will give you their loyalty. They will trust and follow you. Yes, right-thinking people have made our business what it is today."

The virtue of taking action
"We are practical people, not merely dreamers. We know that our dreams and plans won't get very far unless we have the right people to make them realities."

Self-reliant management
"A person's worth to an organization can be measured by the amount of supervision that is required. If a person is not a self-driver, if he does require constant supervision, he should not be in a high place in our organization."

Good management
"Good management is not just organization. It is an attitude inspired by the will to do right. Good management is your own worthiness to have and hold the confidence of others. Your associates really want to trust, respect, admire and believe in you. It's your own fault if they don't."

Self-education
"Take an inventory of yourself and see where you stand. Ask yourself a few questions: Is your mental attitude right? Is your education sufficient? Do you really know your job and do you do your job? Do you allow yourself to get licked when the going is difficult? Do you finish what you start? Do you really have a plan for success? Are you able to lead other people? Do you train, encourage and inspire people who work with you to do a better job and thus help you also do a better one?"

Customer focus
"Our real, primary objective is to serve - to render perfect service to our stores and their customers. If we keep that objective constantly in mind, our reward in money can be beyond our fondest dreams. In the early days of UPS, we didn't look at delayed deliveries and other complaints as a mass of statistics to be filed away and forgotten. We looked at them almost with terror. We regarded every complaint, or cause for complaint, as a flaw in our service, and we trained all our people to prevent them."

Corporate image
"Customers judge us by the visual and mental impression they get. If those impressions are to be favorable, we must have the appearance of doing a good job. Not only does this apply to the physical appearance of plants, cars and people, but it also applies to the impressions created by the work we do and how we do it. When a driver does not have the complete uniform or wears an odd sweater or overcoat - what kind of impression does that person create when making pick-ups or deliveries? And whose fault is that? The driver's? No. It's the fault of someone higher up for failing to insist that proper appearance is a requirement of the day's work."
 

Browntothebone

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UPS Flight Operations Vision
Be the world's safest, most competitive, cost-efficient and on-time airline - where our people enjoy coming to work.
 

P-3 Bubba

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I'm sure FedEx's founding statements and mission are as eloquently written and inspiring. Let's face it, they are both GREAT companies with great pilot groups. I can't wait to run into some of my FedEx buds over a couple beers in ANC.
 

Race Pilot

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Whoever hires me is definitely the best!!
 

Browntothebone

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Gumbydammit, check out www.fortune.com. I know FedEx is great, but our goal will always be to crush them, and we will have fun doing it! Competition is healthy for business and keeps everybody on their toes. Hopefully this magazine article is a little more current than the last one.....

Tuesday February 19, 5:16 pm Eastern Time
Press Release
SOURCE: UPS
UPS Once Again `America's Most Admired'
ATLANTA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 19, 2002--For the 19th consecutive year, UPS (NYSE:UPS - news) has been rated ``America's Most Admired'' company in its industry in a Fortune magazine survey.

UPS also posted the highest average score of any airline or transportation company ranked by the magazine; was ranked in the top 10 nationwide across all industries on four of the eight attributes used to compile the rankings, and was ranked No. 1 in all eight attributes within its industry category.

UPS scored in the top 10 for the quality of its products and services; its financial soundness; its commitment to social responsibility, and for its long-term investment value. Within its industry category, UPS ranked No. 1 in each of those four attributes as well as in rankings for its ability to innovate; quality of management; employee talent, and use of corporate assets.

UPS also received an overall score of 8.16, one of only eight companies in any industry segment to score above 8.0.

UPS, which has built one of the world's best known brands, operates in more than 200 countries and territories around the world and has been widely recognized in recent years for its expanding role in enabling global commerce.

The complete rankings for each industry segment appear in the March 4th issue of Fortune. UPS joins companies like General Electric, IBM, Citigroup, Microsoft, Intel and The Home Depot at the top of their industries.

To compile its list of America's most admired companies, Fortune worked with the Hay Group consultancy to poll 10,000 senior executives, directors and analysts. The result is a group of companies ``that seem to perform at their best when the heat is on,'' the magazine said.
 

USMCFDX

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Browntothebone,
Nice article, but I think you left out all of the parts about FedEx.

America's most admired companies: The shiniest
reputations in tarnished times

Most Admired companies? Please. Scanning the headlines these days makes you wonder if there are any companies worthy of our esteem. Enron, Arthur Andersen, Kmart, Global Crossing, Warnaco, Tyco--need we continue?

And yet in a year when corporate America is not exactly attracting waves of affection, you've
told us that there are still companies that win your respect. A FORTUNE poll of 10,000
executives, analysts, and directors conducted late last fall--well after Enron's shenanigans
first came to light--found that the same names kept emerging. Seven of the ten Most Admired
companies in the nation in 2002--General Electric, Southwest Airlines, Wal-Mart, Microsoft,
Berkshire Hathaway, Home Depot, and Intel--are old reliables from the past two years. One,
Johnson & Johnson, regained its top ten berth after a three-year absence. Just two, FedEx
and Citigroup, are making their first showing in the 20-year history of the list.

Being most admired is all about delivering what you promise to multiple audiences, and that's
something No. 8 FedEx has down pat. Just as Johnson & Johnson found it had to move
beyond its roots, FedEx has successfully transcended its image as simply an air express
carrier for business to become a one-stop shop for any shipping need. Acquisitions like RPS in
1998 and American Freightways last year have rounded out FedEx's offerings to include
ground and freight, respectively, a prescient move given the corporate cost cutting that
followed. "Having the ground network in place has been particularly important as the economy
has slowed," says Jim Winchester, transportation analyst at Lazard Freres. "It allowed us to
walk and chew gum at the same time," quips founder and CEO Fred Smith. Customers agree:
George Kurth, director of supply chain and logistics at Hyundai Motor America, consolidated his $450,000 monthly shipping business from a hodgepodge of companies into FedEx a few
months back. "We wanted the best," he says.
Those developments, plus a landmark seven-year, $7 billion deal to transport priority, express,
and first-class mail for the U.S. Postal Service, helped FedEx increase its operating margin
from 4.2% in the first half of 2001 to 6.6% in the second half. FedEx's stock was up almost
30% for the year, and it's up 61% from its post-Sept. 11 low, while UPS's stock is up just 19%. Partly because of that impressive stock run-up, FedEx won the hearts and minds of the broad business audience this year, while still trailing Big Brown in its industry rankings.

I have only posted when FedEx was mentioned. Go to Forbes for the whole article. Yes it says we still trail Big Brown according to the article in industry rankings, and yes we are a younger company. I am sure both FedEx and UPS will be the two major players around in the next 25 years, and I would not be surprised to see UPS market share drop.
 

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Shem Malmquist
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Brown has to be in management, no UPS line pilot would make posts like this! ;-)
 

Browntothebone

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Brown isn't very shiny, but #1 is still a good number except for recent gains in stock price.....but hopefully I have a few years left.


From www.fortune.com, and O.K. I didn't leave out FedEx this time.....


FDX
Company's Industry: Score / Industry Rank

Mail, Package, Freight Delivery 6.64 / 2

Eight Key Attributes of Reputation: Score / Industry Rank

Innovativeness 7.13 / 2
Employee talent 6.54 / 2
Use of corporate assets 6.52 / 2
Social responsibility 5.71 / 2
Quality of management 6.88 / 2
Financial soundness 6.38 / 2
Long-term investment value 6.5 / 2
Quality of products/services 7.5 / 2


UPS

Company's Industry: Score / Industry Rank

Mail, Package, Freight Delivery 8.16 / 1

Eight Key Attributes of Reputation: Score / Industry Rank
Innovativeness 7.95 / 1
Employee talent 7.91 / 1
Use of corporate assets 7.77 / 1
Social responsibility 7.73 / 1
Quality of management 8.41 / 1
Financial soundness 8.64 / 1
Long-term investment value 8.27 / 1
Quality of products/services 8.59 / 1
 

may

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I have to say, after reading the posts from the original question, - browntothebone- you have nice back up for your comments. But, with regards for the question of the post, you score a 3 out of 10 for useful information. You seem very competitive towards your fellow pilots. I would like to hear why YOU love UPS, not the numbers. I can make (amway) sound good. (No, I do not fly for amway). I would be honored to fly for either company. But with regards to the question of the post and the replies I would choose FEDEX.

I just want to hi five my bud's at airports accross the country, no matter who they work for.

People make the difference.

Let me in.
 
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