F15 Vs F16

B-J-J Fighter

Royce Gracie in Action
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
1,118
Total Time
>4000
Im giving serious thought to joing the AF of Navy and trying to get a flying slot. Im 25 just graduated college with a 3.2 GPA. What are the major differences in the roles of these 2 a/c? Which is more fun to fly and which of the 2 does the AF have more of? Give me some numbers on both if you don't mind.

WHat all do I need to better ny chances of getting a slot? Im a CFI/II with a little over 1000 hours and about 500 dual given. Im in great physical shape, I workout and coach high school wrestling. What do I need to better my chances and make sure I pass the physical? Thanks!
 

Eagleflip

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
794
Total Time
5000+
Eagle Vs. Viper

Ahhh, the great debate. Which is a better jet, the Eagle or the Viper?

Since it is late, I will only give a flippant answer--I'm sure (after the flames have subsided) we will provide more concrete, substantial opinions. But....

1. OK, the only reason the AF bought more F-16's is because they knew the attrition rate was going to be bad...

2. If you want to own your own F-16, buy an acre of land near Luke AFB (in Arizona) ...then wait.

3. You can recognize most Viper, er, Fighting Falcon pilots by their sloping foreheads and knuckles that often drag the floor. And those are the better looking ones. Not that I was looking, of course...

ACTUALLY, the F-16 is a great airplane with a ton of missions--you would never go wrong to get one out of pilot training. The F-15C is a great jet, but will be slowly phased out beginning in 04 as the F-22 comes on line. However, the Eagle will be around until 2025 or so since the AF isn't buying enough F-22s to satisfy all of the requirements. It is still the world's pre-eminent air to air fighter despite the advances made by the Russians and Europeans.

The F-15E is virtually a new jet with a substantial increase in air to ground capability--it is a SH machine with a long life ahead of it.

Enough of this serious stuff--here's the straight poop.

Chicks dig Eagle drivers.

Fight's on!

Best of luck, by the way, Jiu Jitsu man. Don't sweat the physical issue, either. Just make sure that your eyesight is still 20-20 and you will be fine. If not, well....maybe LASIK or another option will be approved one day soon.
 

Toro

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2001
Posts
138
Total Time
2000+
I think a lot of times guys get wrapped up in appearances, and don’t really think about the mission of the aircraft. It seems that most guys out of pilot training want the F-15 because of it’s reputation of air superiority. Other guys want the F-16 because it’s a badass little plane with a hell of a performance capability. Remember that while you are choosing the plane, you’re also choosing the mission. Both of these aircraft are less than a decade from being replaced, but their missions will likely remain the same. For the F-15, that’s air-to-air and for the F-16, that’s dual role of A/A and air-to-ground.

I’ve always wanted to do A/G, which is the only reason I didn’t want an F-15C. But, I’m not a big fan of the viper’s single engine, so if I hadn’t gotten a Strike Eagle, I would have chosen an A-10 before an F-16. I’m obviously biased towards the F-15E (not sure if you meant to include that – you only specified F-15) because of its mission and the capability to perform it. We are dual-role like the 16, but because of the dude in the back seat, we can perform it better. While we’re rooting through the weeds at 500+ knots in the middle of the night getting ready to drop bombs, I can be primarily concerned with flying the jet, not hitting the ground, and maintaining formation while my WSO can focus his attention on finding and designating the target. It can be argued that when we go to the A/A arena, two people=half the SA. I’ve seen this happen in cases, and I’ve seen where it is just the opposite, it all depends on the crew.

In terms of aircraft performance (G-loading and turn capability), a good C driver is going to probably outperform us, and even a bad viper driver can do the same. The “Strike Pig” is a lot heavier than the other two, and will bleed off its energy quickly in an A/A engagement. When you get to UPT, you’ll have IPs from every airframe who will tell you why theirs is the best and everyone else’s sucks (like I’m sure you’ll get here). Take it all in and make your decision from there.

As to what to do to better your chances – it sounds like you have plenty of hours. Don’t worry about the fitness thing – there’s a weight lifting test you have to take in UPT, but it’s fairly cake. And unless you’ve got some kind of medical problem (asthma, color blindness, etc.) you won’t have any problems with the physical.
 

RueterF16

Active member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
40
Total Time
3500
Eagles Vs. Vipers

BJJ,
Having flown both I'll try and give you a fair assessment of which one I preferred. In my experience, the Viper was the most "fun" and capable fighter to fly. (Sorry Flipper...but it is just personal preference). My reasons were that it can literally turn up it's own A$$, has the same long range weapons capability as the Eagle. You also get to blow *&it up as a dual role fighter. The jets are sexy and contrary to popular belief, women love me !! Not Eagle Drivers, although I can fall back on that if I have to!!

Just get to UPT, stay focused on what you want to do. If it's fighters you really want, then strive for perfection so you have the option when assignments come around (sts). Either jet and you'll have a blast.

And as far as the physical stuff...come on we're in the Air Force....
 

AlbieF15

F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
1,764
Total Time
6000
If you mean "manly" like the S-3 I'll stick to my "girlish" F15. I'll accept landing on my 13k plus runway to not fly orbits above the boat.

Reuter...you sick pig. You always wanted a Viper. BAAD DOG!

Albie
(Up to my A$$ in 727 systems...)
 

dgs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
205
Total Time
5,000+
Albie -- As long as we are talking about which jet is sexier, the A320 is way cooler than the ancient 727!! And a side stick is way sexier than side saddle! You picked a way of life, not the airplane or mission!

Future military pilots -- That's something important to remember for anybody considering the Navy or Marines. Let's see... 9 months on a boat or flying combat missions from the comfort of home... the choice seems easy to me. OK, before you all light up your blow torches, I'll admit that sitting in Saudi isn't a ton of fun. I've done lots of time in Saudi. But a 2-3 month TDY sure beats the boat rides. I've also flown combat missions from the heartland and gone to sleep in my own bed at the end of the day. Not a bad way to fight a war.

BTW, it's real easy to argue F-16 vs. F-15 on your way to pilot training. After your first few flights in a jet , the reality of UPT sets in and you will be happy just to graduate and thrilled if you make the fighter/bomber cut. Just do your best and if you are #1 in your class then you can make the choice. Everybody else will probably not get much say. Needs of the AF, and all that. Good luck!
 

Eagleflip

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
794
Total Time
5000+
Sick DOG

Reuter, the only thing that I can say is that you must have gotten a lobotomy prior to making field grade....You prefer a Wiper? Ugh!

I'm not helping you learn you A-320 flows, ex-pal o' mine...Not til you take it all back.

Albie, take a break from that panel and come to our aid. Write a three page diatribe on how the Eagle will eventually rule the world despite aching longerons.

Flipper--my brain is becoming newly wrinkled...FMS, FMGC, DUs, ELAC, ohmybuddah!
 

Mud Eagle

Aviator
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Posts
515
Total Time
69
Roddy said:
Land an F-14 (way sexier jet) on a pitching deck of a carrier and you have arrived as an aviator.
I think I missed that change to 3-1 when they decided that the winners of wars are determined by how well you can land on boats.
 
Last edited:

Piggy

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Posts
9
Total Time
2500+
The Battle Herk

Now, if you're going to have a discussion regarding the best aircraft around, one cannot exclude the mighty and venerable Battle Herk.
I know you jet guys fly fast and look sexy in the g-suits, but while you're pulling g's, I'm pulling the lever on the coffee pot for another cup of joe after taking a nap and making a head call......
And there is a benefit to having your own party on wheels going with you and your own import/export service when coming back from places that sell cool beer/liquor/misc goodies.
Personally, I fly the KC-130 for the Marines. The cameraderie is like no other community, I'm convinced...but then I'm biased... :)
Crews ranging from PFC's to Col's.
Granted, I don't get to drop bombs (which, I admit is pretty cool) and I respect the hell out of you guys for going downtown, but just as a reminder, it was a Marine Battle Herk that put the first grunts on the ground at Camp Rhino........To win the war, you've got to own the ground

Not trying to incite any riots, but had to complete the discussion.

And, now that's the rest of the story.....Good day

Piggy
 

RueterF16

Active member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
40
Total Time
3500
Flipper I'm Sorry!!!

Flipper, I'm sorry. What was I thinking? It must have been the oxygen deprivation from flying U-2's.. Okay, I got another shot from the bottle (Thanks Grandma) and now I'm seeing things clearly..... Now can I have that list of nightclubs and restaurants in Miami????
 

Eagleflip

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
794
Total Time
5000+
No...you'll suffer through VACBI Bob like the rest of us and have no life for at least the first 4 weeks.

After that, well....South Beach does have it's...high points.

EAGLES RULE!
 

Seeniner

Giddy
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Posts
68
Total Time
3000+
First, if you want to fly join the Air Force.

bgs is right on. You can go to UPT with the highest of expectations, but you can find yourself treading in deep water real fast if you're not careful.

I am glad to see a non-fighter respond, although most -130 guys like to think that since they fly low levels they are like a fighter. You need to set priorities, some of mine include being able to stand up, having a real bathroom, no DV flying, warm food (no box lunches) and not getting shot at. The C-9 epitomizes these priorities. Yes, I would love to be able to take a fighter out for a joy ride a few times a month.

Another thing you need to realize is timing makes a huge difference in your career.

See
 

DaveGriffin

Registered Self-Abuser
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
569
Total Time
5 yrs
Fly Navy

For all you USAF pilots: here is a quick refresher about the great job Naval Aviators are doing. (With a special thanks to all the hot sh*t SpecOps guys on the ground lasering that ordinance in on target.)



Navy News & Undersea Technology
January 22, 2002 Pg. 1

Navy Pilots Set Flying And Target Records In Afghanistan
By Lisa Troshinsky

SAN DIEGO, CALIF. -- The success of Operation Enduring Freedom
validated many Navy assets by setting Navy flying and target hit records,
said Navy top officials at last week's AFCEA/Naval Institute conference,
titled "West 2002."

Operating against a landlocked nation, over 70 percent of the strike
sorties were flown by naval aviation, said Vice Adm. Mike Mullen, Deputy
Chief of Naval Operations for Resources, Requirements, and Assessments.

"Eighty percent of our sorties hit targets; 84 percent of our strikers
[4,000 sorties] who dropped ordnance hit at least one target; and 93
percent of the ordnance dropped were Precision Guided Munitions," Mullen
said. "And the Navy was over the target 24/7, and still is. In addition,
the only significant conventional land force presence in country for the
opening phases of the campaign was provided by the Marine Corps 15th
Marine Expeditionary Unit from the Peleliu Amphibious Ready Group."

Plus, "80 percent of Navy sorties that delivered [ordnance] did so against
targets unknown to the pilots when they landed," said Vice Adm. John
Natham, Commander, Naval Air Force, U.S. Pacific Fleet.

"Afghanistan was the complete opposite from what happened in Desert
Storm, where the Navy averaged 10 aircraft per target," Natham said.
"In Afghanistan, there were two targets per aircraft."

"Also, the Navy's strike missions in Afghanistan averaged between seven
and 10 hours per flight," Natham said. "In fact, over half the pilots in
Air Wing 11, Pacific Command, set flying hour records-recording 1,400
hours in one month, while the average is 72 hours a month. Air Wing 11
also had a two percent higher than average maintenance ready rate."

In order to gain air supremacy, the Navy used its EA/6Bs for electronic
jamming of communications, its F-14 Tomcats for precision targeting
coordinates, and Navy fighters escorted Air Force bombers, Natham said.
Tomcats passed Global Positioning System coordinates to aircraft so they
could load up JDAMS (Joint Direct Attack Munition).

The Navy, in turn, was assisted by the Air Force for lift, munitions, and
for shared intelligence and surveillance to reach targets in northern
Afghanistan, he said. JFAC (Joint Force Air Component) escorted forces
until air supremacy was established, then their aircraft flew without
escorts, Natham said.

"Our on-station attack submarines launched over 50 percent of all the
Tomahawk strikes," Mullen said. "Within days, our naval forces were
critical to establishing complete maritime situational awareness, on which
we have built with the most extensive maritime interdiction operations
ever-a model for future operations in the global war on terrorism."

"Since 1989, even though the Navy's battle force has been reduced by 43
percent, strike missile magazine space has actually increased and the
accuracy, flexibility, responsiveness and lethality of each weapon in the
magazine has improved-in some cases by an order of magnitude," he said.

"An example: In Desert Storm in 1991, the Tomahawk targeting cycle was
three days. During Allied Force in 1999, that targeting cycle was reduced
to 101 minutes. In Enduring Freedom it was down to 19 minutes in some
cases. We are now planning systems that allow near real-time targeting
and retargeting in flight by 2004," Mullen said.

"For thousands of years-the conventional wisdom has required a five to
one advantage of offense to defense to predominate in an assault," Mullen
said. "We rewrote the rule book in Afghanistan. Using Joint Special
Operating Forces, persistent intelligence, surveillance and
reconnaissance, strategic airlift and in-flight tanking from the Air Force
and sea-based precision strike, our Afghan allies, though outnumbered
two-to-one by a dedicated and well-resourced Taliban and al Qaeda foe,
overran Afghanistan in a campaign so short we didn't even have time to
negotiate the basing rights in neighboring allied countries."

Readiness On Target

The Navy's state of readiness was key to success in the recent conflict in
Afghanistan, Natham and Mullen said.

"On Sept. 11, based on CNN press reports, and acting on their own
initiative, the Enterprise Battle Group reversed the course they had
shaped to return home from their six-month deployment and were on
station the next morning, ready to answer the nation's call," Mullen said.

"Literally within hours, Navy assets were in place to conduct strikes
against targets in Afghanistan, well ahead of all other elements of the
joint team," Mullen said. "Under verbal orders, while mission planning was
in progress, and with a small air wing detachment, one of our carriers
[USS Kitty Hawk] steamed 6,000 miles at flank speed to establish a forward
operating base for our joint special operating forces. They are now looking
to
the Navy to capture this sea based capability for the future."

At the same time, an amphibious ready group were immediately ready to
deploy in the conflict. They were later joined by USS Carl Vinson, the
USS Teddy Roosevelt, and the USS John C. Stennis, Natham said.

Natham added that sovereignty of U.S. Naval forces was proven, especially
by the fact that three countries, which he declined to name, that are
located close to the Area of Responsibility (AOR), didn't "roll up their
sleeves to help," he said. "And finally, the conflict in Afghanistan
proved the enabling of joint forces," he said. This included working
closely with NATO allies in figuring out what the battlespace looked
like."
 

Seeniner

Giddy
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Posts
68
Total Time
3000+
Dave,
No doubt there is a place for Naval Aviation.

No doubt the Naval Aviators are doing a great job in the fight in Afganistan.

---------------

Life comes down to preferences...mine was to not spend time on a big boat.

I hope that anyone requesting advice from anonymous sources like this board can objectively read our information, then make an educated decision on one's own. Don't take our word, do your own research or you may be sorry.

See
 

JimNtexas

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
1,590
Total Time
2000
One thing to think about is that the F-15C is the safest airplane in the inventory. All it can do is cruise majestically above the battlefield. The enemy will do its best to just ignore it, since it can't really hurt anybody. The Soviet Horde it was designed to counter is just gone, leaving it without a mission.

Jim
 

ck130

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
45
Total Time
4000
Seenier,

Speaking on behalf of Herc drivers everywhere.... bit me. Let's just run down a little laundry list of us supposed "fighter puke" wannabes. Land it on a carrier,..ah yup, deliver trash and gas at the same time..you betcha. Equipped to drop the largest conventional bomb in the inventory.. I do believe so. And if we are going to get down to brass tacks and start comparing gun sizes I'm thinkin my brothers from the Spooky community have that one rapped up as well. As for me I'm just a lowly Coastie who gets to drop a raft on your head after you go swimming. Assumming I'm not too busy day dreaming about being a fighter puke. Oh yes my friend the C-130 community has many sins and vices, envy is just not one of them.

Fly Safe
ck130
 

Michael Knight

helping the innocent
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
103
Total Time
>3000
B-J-J,

I'd love to fly a fighter once but when given the choice for a career... no way! If you are given the choice, pick the aircraft and community that best suits you.

Seeniner,

You can't compare a C-9 to a C-130. Really, when it comes to tactical employment a C-9 is something that doesn't come to mind. It is a nice aircraft and I'm sure you are happy flying it. It has creature comforts and carries stuff to improved airstrips... but the comparison stops there.

-Mike
 

DaveGriffin

Registered Self-Abuser
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
569
Total Time
5 yrs
Seeniner said:
Dave,

Life comes down to preferences...mine was to not spend time on a big boat.

I hope that anyone requesting advice from anonymous sources like this board can objectively read our information, then make an educated decision on one's own. Don't take our word, do your own research or you may be sorry.

See
Seeniner;

When the young man asked for advice in choosing USN or USAF aviation, you were more than happy to make your strong recommendations based upon your personal preferences. When an alternative recommendation is made for another branch of service, you suddenly begin to warn about seeking advice on this board.

I don't know what you are more defensive about; the USAF or your personal comfort and safety concerns which you say drove your decision to fly the C-9. We all know it is more likely that your flight school class ranking is the true reason you ended up where you did; not your need for a head, hot meals, hot coffee and no one shooting at you.
 
Top