• Click here to read the July 2019 APDL and Logbook Pro Newsletter.
  • APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 9.1 is now available on the Apple App Store. Click here for details of what's new in this release. Major new features include Default Rest Facility, ATC Flight Planned Routes and Notifications of route changes, EDCT Status Board Widget, and more...

Emirates Looks At Transpacific Operation

8sugarsugar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Posts
306
Total Time
+
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_06_04_2013_p0-584853.xml

Uh Oh General Lee, what you say about this?

Originally Posted by General Lee
As long as unions, voters, and lobbyists can influence Congress members, it won't happen here. One Congressman from an airline hub city can throw a wrench in any foreign plan. Sorry Sugarsugar. Have fun in Dhaka.


Bye Bye---General Lee
^^^^^After G Lee tells the whole world that Emirates will Never EVER be granted 5th freedom rights; Emirates announces Milan-JFK 5th freedom the very next day
 
Last edited:

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
I read it, and think its a fantastic plan, until the local Gov'ts get an earful from their national airlines, complaining about EK. Also, I don't see it as much of a threat to local US traffic. When normal US travelers book long distance flights, most want the "miles", and EK isn't a part of an alliance. If they are going to buy tickets to go overseas, they want something in return, and if they don't live in a hub city that one of your 380s MAY eventually try service from, they don't want to connect on two different airlines, they'd rather make it easier with one.

So, if this is allowed eventually (local airlines will object), you may pick up some local INTL traffic, but doubtful on US frequent flyers looking for mileage awards. Good luck finding slots, gates, and places to put your 90 A380s. I hear Wichita, Kansas to Taipei may need some nonstop service. Go for it!



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

Varmint

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Posts
551
Total Time
14000
I read it, and think its a fantastic plan, until the local Gov'ts get an earful from their national airlines, complaining about EK. Also, I don't see it as much of a threat to local US traffic. When normal US travelers book long distance flights, most want the "miles", and EK isn't a part of an alliance. If they are going to buy tickets to go overseas, they want something in return, and if they don't live in a hub city that one of your 380s MAY eventually try service from, they don't want to connect on two different airlines, they'd rather make it easier with one.

So, if this is allowed eventually (local airlines will object), you may pick up some local INTL traffic, but doubtful on US frequent flyers looking for mileage awards. Good luck finding slots, gates, and places to put your 90 A380s. I hear Wichita, Kansas to Taipei may need some nonstop service. Go for it!



Bye Bye---General Lee
You do realize that Delta and other US airlines have created a seamless bag transfer experience for Emirates passengers. When you check in at Dubai you can tag your bag through on any carrier so you have no hassles when you arrive as far as having to re-check you own bag or even pay a stupid bag fee.

Only 35% of American's have passports and I think that the type of passengers Emirates is trying to attract from the above percentage really don't care about the mileage awards. They just want comfort and a good experience on such a long flight.

Apparently, Emirates has already quietly obtained 5th freedom rights from certain parts of the world including the US as is evident by the article in the #2 posting of this thread.

If Emirates can make money from Wichita to Taipei, they will. Much like in the past when certain pilot groups in the US were too proud to fly small jets, Emirates is not too proud to fly city pairs that you may laugh at when they know they can make money.
 
Last edited:

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
You do realize that Delta and other US airlines have created a seamless bag transfer experience for Emirates passengers. When you check in at Dubai you can tag your bag through on any carrier so you have no hassles when you arrive as far as having to re-check you own bag or even pay a stupid bag fee.

Only 35% of American's have passports and I think that the type of passengers Emirates is trying to attract from the above percentage really don't care about the mileage awards. They just want comfort and a good experience on such a long flight.

Apparently, Emirates has already quietly obtained 5th freedom rights from certain parts of the world including the US as is evident by the article in the #2 posting of this thread.

If Emirates can make money from Wichita to Taipei, they will. Much like in the past when certain pilot groups in the US were too proud to fly small jets, Emirates is not too proud to fly city pairs that you may laugh at when they know they can make money.

Nah, most Americans don't want to fly on a ME airline. Really, they don't. Who cares if there are bag transfers. Most business travelers want the miles, so they can next take the family somewhere fun for free. Your airline doesn't even belong to a major alliance. They will stick with the big 3. You may syphon some International pax, until those local Gov'ts get an earful from their own National airlines, and then you will get restricted, just like what just happened in Austria. Not only will they not allow you to fly A380s into Vienna, but they will not accept any pax via your QF partnership, and they won't give you additional frequencies on your current 777 flights. As you grow and encroach more on their (European and Asian) airlines profit centers, expect more backlash.

Did you see what happened in Congress today with regards to the Abu Dahbi US customs clearance? They added an amendment to prevent taxpayer funding. Now, that may not sound like much, but it could lead to more, and it also means Congress does listen to large unions and local groups, who actually re-elect those congressmen. That's how it works.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:

8sugarsugar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Posts
306
Total Time
+
Nah, most Americans don't want to fly on a ME airline. Really, they don't. Who cares if there are bag transfers. Most business travelers want the miles, so they can next take the family somewhere fun for free. Your airline doesn't even belong to a major alliance. They will stick with the big 3. You may syphon some International pax, until those local Gov'ts get an earful from their own National airlines, and then you will get restricted, just like what just happened in Austria. Not only will they not allow you to fly A380s into Vienna, but they will not accept any pax via your QF partnership, and they won't give you additional frequencies on your current 777 flights. As you grow and encroach more on their (European and Asian) airlines profit centers, expect more backlash.

Did you see what happened in Congress today with regards to the Abu Dahbi US customs clearance? They added an amendment to prevent taxpayer funding. Now, that may not sound like much, but it could lead to more, and it also means Congress does listen to large unions and local groups, who actually re-elect those congressmen. That's how it works.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Couple points

I don't think brand loyalty in regards to airline miles is as strong as you think. Delta doesn't even give miles for tickets bought at bulk rate anymore for business travelers. Also, the Emirates Skywards programs is in partnership with JetBlue and Alaska. Its not that hard to cash in your Delta miles and start a new program. With the Qantas deal, it has the 3 alliances scared stupid because it erodes it. Just last year, Emirates was in similar talks with AA, but that is on hold.

G Lee, why don't "americans" want to fly on a ME Airline? I don't quite understand the logic. I have only heard praise from countless first time Emirates customers complaining how painful flying international on Delta and how they will never ever fly Delta again.

In fact, Emirates also takes flying away from of Fortune 100 corporate flight departments. Was just talking to a G-V driver who said his boss prefers to be dropped on in JFK, shuttled to the Emirates first class lounge and First class suite to Dubai and beyond for a cool $25,000.
 

Flying Illini

Hit me Peter!
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Posts
2,291
Total Time
6000
I don't know that Emirates "takes flying away" from top-tier corporate departments. It could be that the math doesn't make sense when you look at flying one individual to multiple international destinations when compared to using an airline for the same trip. It's not an uncommon practice in the industry to do what your G-driver friend mentioned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
Couple points

I don't think brand loyalty in regards to airline miles is as strong as you think. Delta doesn't even give miles for tickets bought at bulk rate anymore for business travelers. Also, the Emirates Skywards programs is in partnership with JetBlue and Alaska. Its not that hard to cash in your Delta miles and start a new program. With the Qantas deal, it has the 3 alliances scared stupid because it erodes it. Just last year, Emirates was in similar talks with AA, but that is on hold.

G Lee, why don't "americans" want to fly on a ME Airline? I don't quite understand the logic. I have only heard praise from countless first time Emirates customers complaining how painful flying international on Delta and how they will never ever fly Delta again.

In fact, Emirates also takes flying away from of Fortune 100 corporate flight departments. Was just talking to a G-V driver who said his boss prefers to be dropped on in JFK, shuttled to the Emirates first class lounge and First class suite to Dubai and beyond for a cool $25,000.

Well, I think people want miles if they are going to travel across the globe, primarily because those points might give their family a free trip to Hawaii. It is important here in the States, but maybe not to businessmen in Lahore or Bangalaru. They don't care there, they are among the top in their countries to even fly anywhere, and they may not care. But here in the States, everyone wants something for free, and if their business buys them a business class ticket to Narita from LA, they will use those points later on. Also, the more the fly, the higher their "status" on that airline. Didn't you see that George Clooney film about being a top customer at AA? It was very important to him, and that is the same at the other 2 legacies. All 3 have invested in lounges, even DL picks up pax at the gates in ATL and JFK I believe in Porsche SUVs and takes them to their next connecting gate. Top flyers get top treatment, and everyone strives to hit the top here. Going on EK does nothing for their "status" at the big 3 here. As I said, maybe people in Pakistan and India don't care.

Also, if someone has a GV, they will take the GV to DXB. If a company has one, middle managers might not go on one, but those guys still want the points. Now the rich oil Barron from Kenya ? He probably doesn't care, and will fly on you to DXB and then onward, also because the big 3 American Airlines don't go to Kenya. You can have it!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:

CLCAP

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Posts
967
Total Time
5000
Sorry General, having flown international on both Emirates and Delta (and most other Legacy carriers), and flying international many times a year - I would pick Emirates over Delta any time. Using the miles is becoming to restrictive, and the passenger experience just cannot be compared. Until Delta and others learn to treat their customers the way Emirates does - they will not have my business when I have a choice. All my colleagues would gladly forsake the miles to avoid an American Legacy on long flights.
 

8sugarsugar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Posts
306
Total Time
+
Well, I think people want miles if they are going to travel across the globe, primarily because those points might give their family a free trip to Hawaii. It is important here in the States, but maybe not to businessmen in Lahore or Bangalaru. They don't care there, they are among the top in their countries to even fly anywhere, and they may not care. But here in the States, everyone wants something for free, and if their business buys them a business class ticket to Narita from LA, they will use those points later on. Also, the more the fly, the higher their "status" on that airline. Didn't you see that George Clooney film about being a top customer at AA? It was very important to him, and that is the same at the other 2 legacies. All 3 have invested in lounges, even DL picks up pax at the gates in ATL and JFK I believe in Porsche SUVs and takes them to their next connecting gate. Top flyers get top treatment, and everyone strives to hit the top here. Going on EK does nothing for their "status" at the big 3 here. As I said, maybe people in Pakistan and India don't care.

Also, if someone has a GV, they will take the GV to DXB. If a company has one, middle managers might not go on one, but those guys still want the points. Now the rich oil Barron from Kenya ? He probably doesn't care, and will fly on you to DXB and then onward, also because the big 3 American Airlines don't go to Kenya. You can have it!


Bye Bye---General Lee
sorry to disappoint you but the real world is much different than the movie "Up in the Air" :laugh:

Skymiles have become a joke. It costs 45,000 miles to cash in a free ticket on the day you want to travel. You might be able to get a free ticket for 25,000 miles that retails for $189 on Expedia.
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
sorry to disappoint you but the real world is much different than the movie "Up in the Air" :laugh:

Skymiles have become a joke. It costs 45,000 miles to cash in a free ticket on the day you want to travel. You might be able to get a free ticket for 25,000 miles that retails for $189 on Expedia.
Thanks George Clooney...... I knew YOU would know the name of that movie, you probably re-watch it a few times per week...

And, it seems many Skymiles members enjoy the program. I constantly see "Diamonds" and "Platinum" members sitting in First, ready to enjoy the ride. Maybe it's because they aren't going to Kocin, India like you are. No thanks!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

flyboyike

Urban Legend/Rural Myth
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Posts
1,852
Total Time
5801
Nah, most Americans don't want to fly on a ME airline. Really, they don't.
According to Time magazine, "most" Americans spend nearly 80% of their life within 20 miles of their birthplace (may not be the absolute exact figure, but it's in that range, they had an article on the subject around 5 years ago), so there you go. As for EK, one of the things they are doing rather successfully is marketing themselves as a "global" as opposed to a "Middle Eastern" carrier, and it's working. Probably better than many of us realize, too.
 

8sugarsugar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Posts
306
Total Time
+
Thanks George Clooney...... I knew YOU would know the name of that movie, you probably re-watch it a few times per week...

And, it seems many Skymiles members enjoy the program. I constantly see "Diamonds" and "Platinum" members sitting in First, ready to enjoy the ride. Maybe it's because they aren't going to Kocin, India like you are. No thanks!


Bye Bye---General Lee

This discussion is once again drifting. This discussion is about the threat Emirates' poses to wide body international routes from USA to Europe and Asia.

But is EK really a threat to Delta? With Emirates' 3rd JFK flight a day into Terminal 4, Delta should be foaming at the mouth for the 450,000 seats a year that could be funneled into Delta domestic. I don't see any REAL effort by the Legacies to fight or stop Emirates.

I don't think people realize how close Emirates came to striking a deal with AA similar to Qantas. The grand plan was to open a western hemisphere hub.

Globalization is here, like it or not.
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
This discussion is once again drifting. This discussion is about the threat Emirates' poses to wide body international routes from USA to Europe and Asia.

But is EK really a threat to Delta? With Emirates' 3rd JFK flight a day into Terminal 4, Delta should be foaming at the mouth for the 450,000 seats a year that could be funneled into Delta domestic. I don't see any REAL effort by the Legacies to fight or stop Emirates.

I don't think people realize how close Emirates came to striking a deal with AA similar to Qantas. The grand plan was to open a western hemisphere hub.

Globalization is here, like it or not.
Doesn't EK have a deal with JetBlue? As far as Globalization goes, Alliances will take care of that, with each member carving out their own piece. I think DL and other Skyteam members make some money sending pax from JFK to DXB via AMS or CDG (on DL planes to those hubs, then onward on KL or AF). With Alliances, there are plenty of options for business travelers to travel anywhere, the worldwide coverage is huge. Businesses want easy check in and the ability to use lounges at different airlines in different places. And, big businesses often sign corporate contracts to sweeten the deals. Skyteam, One World, and Star Alliance have the World covered already. QR is thinking about One World as we speak. If you join an alliance, you have to respect your partners' needs, and not overstep. EK hasn't joined one because they simply don't want to be restricted, and they have too many planes coming. They can hope the get the rights to fly from Asia to the US, or CDG to LAX etc, but they risk irking local airlines who whisper to their own governments, and then you get a situation like the one you have in Austria. It will happen a lot more if you step on the local's toes.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:

colejer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Posts
63
Total Time
5200
I think GL and 8sugar are both somewhat right.

EK will probably not take a lot of traditional American passengers that want miles. They will however take some that like a higher standard.

And I believe they will take many non traditional American passengers. 1st or 2nd generation immigrants that still have ties to their home countries.

EK won't hurt the so called traditional passengers for a legacy carrier it will be the non traditional passengers that would of flown on a legacy that will now have a choice. That is where EK may hurt the legacy carriers.

Will it really hurt them? Not sure. If I were paying and had a choice it would be on any foreign airline that was safe over a US carrier.
 

sniper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
862
Total Time
18000
Sorry General, having flown international on both Emirates and Delta (and most other Legacy carriers), and flying international many times a year - I would pick Emirates over Delta any time. Using the miles is becoming to restrictive, and the passenger experience just cannot be compared. Until Delta and others learn to treat their customers the way Emirates does - they will not have my business when I have a choice. All my colleagues would gladly forsake the miles to avoid an American Legacy on long flights.



Ex CRJ and Current Mrat pilot:

The difference is you never paid on Delta. You just got the JS and put on first by that nice captain. unlike in your own Airline you paid for your non rev 300 dollar business class. Try paying next time
 

CLCAP

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Posts
967
Total Time
5000
Ex CRJ and Current Mrat pilot:

The difference is you never paid on Delta. You just got the JS and put on first by that nice captain. unlike in your own Airline you paid for your non rev 300 dollar business class. Try paying next time
You couldn't be more wrong. I have never flown for an airline and have zero desire for ever flying for one as I am quite happy in the corporate world. I do however often position (world wide) as a passenger, and I do have a choice between airlines.

You seem to be wrong on most of your assumptions.
 

sniper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
862
Total Time
18000
You couldn't be more wrong. I have never flown for an airline and have zero desire for ever flying for one as I am quite happy in the corporate world. I do however often position (world wide) as a passenger, and I do have a choice between airlines.

You seem to be wrong on most of your assumptions.

I know it's an anonymous forum , CLCAP?
Happy to have a job?


Ok then
 

CLCAP

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Posts
967
Total Time
5000
I know it's an anonymous forum , CLCAP?
Happy to have a job?


Ok then
How in the world does that have anything to do with the discussion at hand?

A lot of passengers will still choose a higher quality experience over a lower quality one, and you are right now on the side of the lower quality one.

I would be the first one to switch back to US airlines if their customer service matched Emirates (or Qatar, or Singapore, or Cathay, or even some Chinese carriers), but that seems to be a pipe dream.
 
Top