DL proposes Profit Sharing cut for Pilots

redflyer65

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Heard rumor that the latest company offer had a reduction in PS for some nice gains in payrates and a bump in the B-fund.

Just wondered what the DL guys on here think of that, or is it just leaked info to see where everyone stands? Maybe it's too small of a snapshot to get a good read on it. Thoughts?

Not looking for this to turn into DL vs. SW.
 

CaptETWes

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Yet the chosen title of this thread is that it is a fact. How about amending it to match the first two words of the first sentence?
 

redflyer65

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Again, I'm not trying to stir the pot.

I used the word 'proposes' and didn't include 'rumor'. I've looked to change the title, but not sure I can. Had no intent for it to be inflammatory.

A proposal from the company doesn't mean squat unless the pilots agree. I was just trying to see were folks fell on this issue.
 

CaptETWes

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Didn't believe you were trying to get things stirred up but it was glaringly obvious one part was stated as fact and another was a rumor. May have nit-picked but I hope that'll help keep it civil.

I personally haven't heard the rumor but it doesn't surprise me if they ask for a reduction to offset AA rates and higher. There's no harm in asking during negotiations but I hope management has a realistic expectation of the response.
 

redflyer65

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It was over on APC, so I was surprised it wasn't being talked about here. Of course things have died off here recently.

Bill?
 

Data

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It was over on APC, so I was surprised it wasn't being talked about here. Of course things have died off here recently.

Bill?
GL should be along shortly to revive it...:rolleyes:
 

outerlimits

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Yet the chosen title of this thread is that it is a fact. How about amending it to match the first two words of the first sentence?


I think it's more than a rumor . I have heard it for a while .
 

daviator

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Haven't heard this from any of my reps. I'd prefer to keep the PS system the the way it is now. YMMV.
 

BILL LUMBERG

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It has not been formally proposed....made some calls on it to people (reps), who are in the know and they haven't been told anything.

There's been a rumor being spread around that they are looking at a reduction in Profit sharing, but they also want me to work for free and always be available for reroute and assignment too.....=) its just a wish list and they probably asked for it.

Not sure we can bank on forever being profitable.....my opinion is pay me now...I could care less if they post profits.....BUT profit sharing is the giveback if they run on hard times.
 

SpauldingSmails

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Thanks Bill,

I've also heard the rumors. Last round the company "monetized" some of our PS, and I don't think it would be a far fetch for it to crop up again, even if it hasn't been floated yet.

I would even speculate that IF the company wants to wind down profit sharing that it would use the Pilots' Agreement as a stalking horse for the other employee groups. With DAL management's sensitivity to unionization efforts amongst its other employee groups, they'd not likely draw down any other group's PS before the pilots.

Frankly, I'd rather enjoy a significant raise in lieu of the annual or semi annual PS check. Now is always better than later when it comes to money, in my book.
 

Andy

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It might bring about some better pattern bargaining by ALPA.

Give away PS during good times for large pay raises.
When the company asks for wage cuts, exchange that for a big chunk of PS.

Rinse and repeat.
As of now, we take big pay cuts during lean times in exchange for bupkis.
 

BILL LUMBERG

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Thanks Bill,

I've also heard the rumors. Last round the company "monetized" some of our PS, and I don't think it would be a far fetch for it to crop up again, even if it hasn't been floated yet.

I would even speculate that IF the company wants to wind down profit sharing that it would use the Pilots' Agreement as a stalking horse for the other employee groups. With DAL management's sensitivity to unionization efforts amongst its other employee groups, they'd not likely draw down any other group's PS before the pilots.

Frankly, I'd rather enjoy a significant raise in lieu of the annual or semi annual PS check. Now is always better than later when it comes to money, in my book.
Agreed, on all you said here Spaulding!

I always wondered about the union side....i figured the company would want to pay us a better PS equation and keep our hourly raises low because once the sheeple (nonunion types) hear a large percentage hourly raise for us, that gets them all riled up.

Then again, nobody at the G.O. asked my opinion.
 

BILL LUMBERG

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It might bring about some better pattern bargaining by ALPA.

Give away PS during good times for large pay raises.
When the company asks for wage cuts, exchange that for a big chunk of PS.

Rinse and repeat.
As of now, we take big pay cuts during lean times in exchange for bupkis.
Too true Andy.....when (or if ) stupid management tricks make us lose money take my profit sharing rather than reopen my contract with pay cuts and work rule changes.....they can then pound sand. More stability over a career using that method. Stupid me....using the word "stability" in this line of work.
 

Andy

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Too true Andy.....when (or if ) stupid management tricks make us lose money take my profit sharing rather than reopen my contract with pay cuts and work rule changes.....they can then pound sand. More stability over a career using that method. Stupid me....using the word "stability" in this line of work.
Bill, I can see I wasn't clear.

Whenever there's an economic downturn and airlines lose money, they end up getting pilots to take pay cuts. It's always happened in the past and will happen in the future. NEXT TIME, let's demand large profit sharing (and stock options, similar to what management gets) when they cut our wages.

During good times when they want to cut our profit sharing, fine. Just make sure that we get HUGE pay increases for the PS cut.


In the past, we've agreed to pay cuts but have not gotten anything in return. Let's start to use profit sharing and stock options as a bargaining chip when they come after our paychecks.
 

BILL LUMBERG

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Andy you were crystal....

We are speaking the same lingo except I have been burned before by the coveted stock options idea. Thats not worth our nego capital IMHO.
 

Andy

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Andy you were crystal....

We are speaking the same lingo except I have been burned before by the coveted stock options idea. Thats not worth our nego capital IMHO.
In the past, I've seen ALPA negotiate for restricted stock that can't be sold for many years. If it were me, I'd want to negotiate for stock options with a reasonable strike price and, say 10 year expiration, that are immediately exercisable and placed into a pilot's account where he has full control over them. Such options would have no material cost to the company, just like profit sharing has no cost to a money losing company.
 
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