Despite union opposition, Flight Options moved forward...

993_Pilot

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woooo everybody take a deep breath

You guys at FLOPS/FLEX get quarterly reports??? (company financials, sales, trends pointing up/down, etc??

How are things over-there??
Directional Aviation Capital (the parent holding company) is privately held, so No, we can't really get any reliable info, other than what they want us to "know" (think). Things are pretty crappy if you're a Flight Options pilot, but hopefully the courts/arbitrators will intervene soon. However, regardless of what most of the Flexjet pilots might think, it is probably about to be far worse than most of them know or suspect. Most just haven't truly figured it out yet, because it is difficult to really understand this management team until you experience them without being on the favorite side of the whipsawing.

For el raton and the rest of the Flex pilots, please don't think that just because Shanes123 is a union supporter, that he represents the general tone and feelings of the rest of the union supporters or the leadership. There are wildcard types on both sides of the union issue.
 

tomgoodman

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Directional Aviation Capital (the parent holding company) is privately held, so No, we can't really get any reliable info, other than what they want us to "know" (think).
One of DAC's holdings, Sentient Jet, had some connection with the Kentucky Derby winner today. :confused:
 

doh

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Fifteen pilots at Flexjet are doing all the work. We are swamped. You refusing to help for any reason is a dodge. It gets a little old hearing your lame excuses. Step up on the vuh and help. I'm not sure what post of VF you are referring to? I have always responded positively to his vuh posts.
 

flexible

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Dead Label is a particular thorn in my paw. Thanks to whoever coined my new favorite phrase.

I believe the poster is referring to the post in the vuh with the pictures of trashed out dead label airplane handed off by one of the premier benefactors of the new payscale bonus sham. I've seen graveyard airframes in better condition. I personally not on that fleet so I have not flown but it is embarrassing based in pictures and I know customers who are supposed to be dead label doesn't even know what it is so how is it they signed up for the program over other choices? Red label should be union number one priority. To me only priority fro mow.

Being quite amused ive taken every opportunity to I discuss it on the road. I shocked to hear thr captain in question was apologized by the fjplc for the post and remarks saying they did not represent the feelings of the union toward red label crews. He is going around smug and still cashing in his paychevk. Union apologizing for what? Seriously I want to know. Is dead label a union issue or not? I'm starting to believe it is no. I want to know who on fjplc is saying it's not since I know one is for sure saying it is.

Anti red label is my only reason to support union. Only reason. Is it true half the fjplc is red label paid? I have to figure our if my checks are stopping in June or what.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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One of DAC's holdings, Sentient Jet, had some connection with the Kentucky Derby winner today. :confused:
Just found out Sentient Jet had sponsored Nyquist. If I was at DAC, I would have advertisements flooding the market to increase my sales. But then again they can't do that, selling hours in planes that are parked would mean Options wouldn't have needed to furlough any pilots.
 

993_Pilot

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You have to remember what DAC's goals are.
#1 is GET RID OF THE UNION
#2 is win more market share
In that order! Until they accomplish the first, they are willing to put the second on hold to some extent, especially in the slower summer season.

Management will try to get rid of the union with a game plan as old as time itself:
- Favor the loyal non-supporters/FoK (w/International Red Label)
- Convince the Fence Sitters/Flexjet (offer the Red-Label pay carrot, New Airplanes, Meal Plan, Domiciles)
- Get rid of union supporters (VSP via Cherry Picking, Furloughs/Firing, Intimidation)
- Marginalize and make the union look bad, with lots of blame and circumventing or challenging the current CBA
- Continue to grow the (Generally Non-Union Supporters) Flexjet brand while shrinking the (Union Supporters) Options brand
- Delay, Delay, Delay (by any means, including legal challenges, stalling Fences, SLI, and ultimately the JCBA for 2 years)
- Go for a de-cert card drive & vote

Obviously the union will challenge or counter their strategy, but management has been more successful here than most of us would care to admit. Ultimately, the union will probably eventually win most of the legal challenges, but they take time, and management knows this, so the big question is will the Flexjet pilots see through this charade in time for it to make a difference? It is easy for the Options pilots, because we have been down this road before, and we well know what happens once the honeymoon is over, if you are not a FoK. However, it is a bit harder to see when you are part of the group that is being courted and treated relatively well.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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"Obviously the union will challenge or counter their strategy, but management has been more successful here than most of us would care to admit. Ultimately, the union will probably eventually win most of the legal challenges, but they take time, and management knows this, so the big question is will the Flexjet pilots see through this charade in time for it to make a difference? It is easy for the Options pilots, because we have been down this road before, and we well know what happens once the honeymoon is over, if you are not a FoK. However, it is a bit harder to see when you are part of the group that is being courted and treated relatively well."

From what I hear, Federal Judge Gwin can see this charade for what it is. Things may be slow, but at least they are starting to go in the right direction.
 

doh

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Will the weakly message include an update on the hearing? Gosh, I hope so!
 

Bjtdrvr

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Perhaps they will report on how they tried to squash the Union witnesses from testifying but were unsuccessful? Or that they did not have any witnesses of their own but yet the hearing was nearly four hours long? It sounds like the judge was doing his due diligence and could see through the charade that the company is staging! Wait! Didn't KR say that the judge would just agree to his demands because it would be good for the company? Oh. That was in reference to the illegal loa he demanded the Union sign in order to do the Citation Air deal!!!!! The company did not want to use McCaskill Bond in that integration! Or in the integration of Flex and FO either until the Union passed. :)
 

ksu_aviator

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Help me to understand the opposition to the buy outs. My understanding is that KR offered 1 year salary for permanent severance. Correct?

If that is correct, why is it preferable to force the recalls into unemployment when maybe some people want to leave and could take a small windfall of cash with them?
 

shanes123

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That's not ecactly correct. There were 6,9,12 month severance depending on where you fell on seniority list.
 

doh

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Help me to understand the opposition to the buy outs. My understanding is that KR offered 1 year salary for permanent severance. Correct?

If that is correct, why is it preferable to force the recalls into unemployment when maybe some people want to leave and could take a small windfall of cash with them?
It has nothing to do with the buy out. It has to do with management's legal obligation to negotiate. Don't confuse their strawman argument with the real issue. Their refusal to bargain in good faith.
 

CALRepublic

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I don't work for FLOPS/FLEX, but it Sounds like Mr. Ricci is trying to raise money anyway he can.... it seems like he's throwing mud at the wall, see where it sticks

Was the union allowed to look at the company's books??? This might not be a negotiating tactic, he's probably in real trouble (financially speaking)
 

Imissmypilot

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That's not ecactly correct. There were 6,9,12 month severance depending on where you fell on seniority list.
Not accurate. Do not depend on hearsay, read the documents.

Determined depending on fleet and where you fell on seniority list there were different options offered. Cherry picked by company, out of seniority order. Exit date also determined by company, out of seniority order. Medical was also a mix some company paid, some direct to COBRA. And no transparency - no one, including (especially) union officials would know who applied and was granted or denied. What was officially offered was so haphazardly and arbitrarily put together it was obviously intended for it to spark a fight with the union.

This was a red herring. I'm not against the VSP but actually I don't think the union is either.

Upon review, I'm truly surprised Union haters are actually okay with the VSP. It doesn't make sense. There's just enough hinky with it from conventional financial wisdom you have to question if these guys "vision"can really keep us afloat in the years to come.

We are the only company in our sector losing money. Others are making a killing. Seriously, ask yourself what the ******************** is wrong with this picture.

Why isn't our illustrious Flexjet leadership pointing out the obvious? Why are they surrendering such a home run?

I'm happy the Options guys are at least giving us some details but again I have to ask where is Flexjet leadership? You are losing support everyday in this silence. I get this is "our" union and the Options guys are my guys now too but the Flexjet side of this thing is a ghost town. Yammer is a nightmare of misinformation. The Flexjet pilot group is suffering the foolishness of it all in the vacuum created by this seeming reservation to even say anything. I'm glad to see some of our leaders pop their heads out of the sand on the VUH, however extremely disappointed it's about air shows, left seat debates and insurance. Whoever obviously told you silence is golden just doesn't want your opinion. What the ******************** is going on? This is ridiculous.

I'm starting to believe the conspiracy theory the union always intended to shut the Flexjet side of this out of any and all relevance in negotiations. No offense, I'm not okay with surrendering to the lowest common denominator. I voted yes because I'm expecting a CBA that will raise all boats. Now i'm starting to wonder if all the 1108 is concerned with is raising the Options side to parity and us Flexers are about to be hosed. Hosed with rights but nonetheless hosed.

What does it matter if the union is winning in court if the union is only protecting the Options side of the house? So Flexjet side, I want to know, what have you done for me lately? You might be winning the legal side but you've surrendered the PR game to the puppet masters of Cleveland.
 

dime line

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You still don't get it....no flight options pilot is against a flex pilot, it's about us getting a CBA on par with our peers ( net jets, sw, delta, aa)
 

Imissmypilot

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You still don't get it....no flight options pilot is against a flex pilot, it's about us getting a CBA on par with our peers ( net jets, sw, delta, aa)
Yes you keep saying that hoping enough air time makes it true. But all we see from the Flexjet side of this Broadway musical is a lot of song and dance about what's best for Options.

I haven't heard one thing in the past 6 months that matters solely to Flexjet. I've heard a lot that matters to everyone, a lot just to Options but nothing about just Flexjet. So far in all this give and take, the only losers have been Flexjet and the unfortunately furloughed Options guys. But the rest of you are sitting pretty.

You have the safety of a contract and we have your losers flying our left seats. You have your scope and fences and we have red label. You have better part of SLI, the legal firepower and attention. In return we got your subpar maintenance, long days and the job quality of an elf 3 days before Christmas without the cookies and cocoa.

So remind me dime line, what part of "we" is looking good to a Flexjet guy today?

Our peers are working for companies who can't turn away business in this economy and "we" both work for a fundraiser who can't seem to sell grade school chocolate bars to obese secretaries. So forgive me if my hopes for an on par contract give way to my inclination to believe the tin foil hatters as long as "your" side gets something I can pretty much piss away any elevation for "my" side.

Not meaning to be acrimonious but the more "my" side is ignored the louder this opinion gets on the line.
 

Dirty Squirrel

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Yes you keep saying that hoping enough air time makes it true. But all we see from the Flexjet side of this Broadway musical is a lot of song and dance about what's best for Options.

I haven't heard one thing in the past 6 months that matters solely to Flexjet. I've heard a lot that matters to everyone, a lot just to Options but nothing about just Flexjet. So far in all this give and take, the only losers have been Flexjet and the unfortunately furloughed Options guys. But the rest of you are sitting pretty.

You have the safety of a contract and we have your losers flying our left seats. You have your scope and fences and we have red label. You have better part of SLI, the legal firepower and attention. In return we got your subpar maintenance, long days and the job quality of an elf 3 days before Christmas without the cookies and cocoa.

So remind me dime line, what part of "we" is looking good to a Flexjet guy today?

Our peers are working for companies who can't turn away business in this economy and "we" both work for a fundraiser who can't seem to sell grade school chocolate bars to obese secretaries. So forgive me if my hopes for an on par contract give way to my inclination to believe the tin foil hatters as long as "your" side gets something I can pretty much piss away any elevation for "my" side.

Not meaning to be acrimonious but the more "my" side is ignored the louder this opinion gets on the line.
The mic drops.
 

993_Pilot

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Yes you keep saying that hoping enough air time makes it true. But all we see from the Flexjet side of this Broadway musical is a lot of song and dance about what's best for Options.

I haven't heard one thing in the past 6 months that matters solely to Flexjet. I've heard a lot that matters to everyone, a lot just to Options but nothing about just Flexjet. So far in all this give and take, the only losers have been Flexjet and the unfortunately furloughed Options guys. But the rest of you are sitting pretty.

You have the safety of a contract and we have your losers flying our left seats. You have your scope and fences and we have red label. You have better part of SLI, the legal firepower and attention. In return we got your subpar maintenance, long days and the job quality of an elf 3 days before Christmas without the cookies and cocoa.

So remind me dime line, what part of "we" is looking good to a Flexjet guy today?

Our peers are working for companies who can't turn away business in this economy and "we" both work for a fundraiser who can't seem to sell grade school chocolate bars to obese secretaries. So forgive me if my hopes for an on par contract give way to my inclination to believe the tin foil hatters as long as "your" side gets something I can pretty much piss away any elevation for "my" side.

Not meaning to be acrimonious but the more "my" side is ignored the louder this opinion gets on the line.
Besides misinformation and FUD on Yammer, management's sole tactic seems to be to stalling in any way possible. Management won't speak or negotiate with the union let alone the Flexjet PLC, so until they do, what is it that you expect from the Flexjet PLC? Other than announcements, what you see on the VUH is what the people on the VUH post, and that is rarely IBT leadership, it is mostly Flight Options pilots. If you want to see more stuff about Flexjet, get more of your fellow pilots to come out of the shadows and post. All are welcome, but I get it, Management won't even agree to grant you guys and gals "Weingarten Rights", and consequentially the Flexjet pilots are playing it safe. You can hardly blame the PLC for that, but I think we both know exactly who we can blame.
 
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