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Delta Orient????

storminpilot

Well-known member
http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2005-09-16-merger-speculation_x.htm

http://biz.yahoo.com/usat/050916/13111095.html?.v=1



USATODAY.com
Could airlines merge?
Friday September 16, 12:47 am ET


Delta Air Lines (DAL) and Northwest Airlines (NWAC) entered bankruptcy court together this week, and few will be surprised if they emerge together - as a single combined carrier.

The twin Chapter 11 bankruptcy filings Wednesday night, almost simultaneous and in the same New York courthouse, are leading many industry experts to believe the carriers may be exploring a merger within bankruptcy protection.

"I wouldn't be at all surprised," Benchmark analyst Helane Becker said Thursday. "In the past, these two airlines have talked and they have very little route overlap."

JPMorgan Chase analyst Jamie Baker said his firm "already has coined the term 'Delta Orient,' " a play on Northwest's former brand name, Northwest Orient.

Atlanta-based Delta is concentrated in the East and launches more daily flights across the Atlantic than any other carrier. Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest is concentrated in the Midwest and has a strong route structure in Asia.

The minimal route overlap is considered an advantage with federal regulators.

Airlines proposing a major merger would have to convince government regulators that the combination would not significantly reduce competition, or that one or both of the airlines would fail without the merger.

Northwest declined comment when asked about a merger with Delta.

In a conference call Wednesday, Northwest CEO Doug Steenland said the timing and location of the filings was coincidental. He added he has long believed consolidation among airlines is likely.

Delta spokeswoman Chris Kelly said Delta "expects there will be more consolidation in the industry. Right now, Delta is focused on its own restructuring efforts."

The twin filings, outrageously high fuel prices and declining hope for financial relief from the government could spark a round of merger talks as the remaining big troubled airlines scramble for partners.

A judge today is expected to approve a merger between US Airways and America West Airlines.

Five big potential partners remain: United Airlines, Delta and Northwest, all of which are now in bankruptcy protection, as well as American Airlines and Continental Airlines.

A merger of No. 3 Delta and No. 4 Northwest would propel the combined airline to the front of the industry pack.

It would pass American and United and become the biggest airline in terms of revenue passenger miles, according to an analysis by Back Aviation Solutions.
 

skykid

On Point
With all the talk about consolidation, Northwest/Delta is one of the few that makes any sense.
 

BoDEAN

Cabo Wabo Express
I heard from a NWA captain that NWA would fly the Intl' routes, Delta pick up the domestic routes, with a new airline name in the merge. Be interesting to see if this happens.
 

Workin'Stiff

Fire in 'da hole!!!!
BoDean-

I'd be very skeptical of that. NW has fifth freedom rights in Japan that would be forfeited should the NW name "go away." Those rights are very, very exclusive and rest upon the Northwest name remaining intact.
 

General Lee

Well-known member
skykid said:
With all the talk about consolidation, Northwest/Delta is one of the few that makes any sense.
Just because of the fleet types? All of the routes together would challenge your United, and be larger. As far as the fleets go, it may be good initially to have a large Airbus and Boeing presence, since you could play that out against each other in future bids. NW and DL are getting rid of the older equipment right now (DC9s, 737200s, 762s, DC10s, 733s, etc), and NW even made a large Boeing order--787s--in the face of owning a mainly Airbus fleet.

I read in NW's opener that they wanted E190s to replace the DC9s, and DL apparently may be interested too. The hubs would have to be cleaned up a tad---CVG and MEM probably gone---which DL is already sort of doing right now--cutting back at CVG. This process, if it happens, may take awhile---I think a year or so--to clean up and move things around. Those crazy analysts (who I personally love and think are ALWAYS correct) wouldn't have brought this up if it weren't a possibilty. Who knows? I see CAL/UAL next. (Bethune is interested in UAL, and has always loved his CAL)


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

General Lee

Well-known member
BoDEAN said:
I heard from a NWA captain that NWA would fly the Intl' routes, Delta pick up the domestic routes, with a new airline name in the merge. Be interesting to see if this happens.
I heard that NW would fly ASIA and pick up the ATL-NRT route, while DL would do more Europe (picking up the DC10 Europe routes with our 767ERs from DTW and MSP) and South America. Song would still be the LCC of the two. Then each hub would have a combination of E190s and mid-sized aircraft to serve the larger cities. Not many widebodies would be used domestically, lowering capacity and raising yeilds. They would all be out flying INTL routes. Just a rumor out there...over the pacific at night....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Cyclone

Well-known member
new equipment for DL and NWA

you can't pay the mortgage. credit card bills are overdue. last time you made a car payment was in june. electric and phone bills are late. creditors calling. time to file bankruptcy so all the troubles go away.

filed bankruptcy today. tomorrow you go shopping for a brand new M3 convertible? wtfo? i don't think so general. keep sniffing glue though it will help you maintain the positive outlook.
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Cyclone said:
you can't pay the mortgage. credit card bills are overdue. last time you made a car payment was in june. electric and phone bills are late. creditors calling. time to file bankruptcy so all the troubles go away.

filed bankruptcy today. tomorrow you go shopping for a brand new M3 convertible? wtfo? i don't think so general. keep sniffing glue though it will help you maintain the positive outlook.
Maybe you didn't hear about the AirCanada Chap 11 filing. (or whatever is it in Canada) Aftr being days from liquidation, they came out with a huge Boeing order for 20 787s and 35 777s. The reason it later went south was a pilot dispute over seniority on certain planes---CP Air pilots versus old Air Canada. I don't think that would happen here (?), but it shows you that anyone can get new planes after a bankruptcy.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Rick James

Well-known member
Cyclone said:
you can't pay the mortgage. credit card bills are overdue. last time you made a car payment was in june. electric and phone bills are late. creditors calling. time to file bankruptcy so all the troubles go away.

filed bankruptcy today. tomorrow you go shopping for a brand new M3 convertible? wtfo? i don't think so general. keep sniffing glue though it will help you maintain the positive outlook.
That's funny, and true.
General,
I admire your loyalty, even though I dont agree with your bashing of others at times. The Air Canada example is a stretch as the gov. does'nt have a stake in your Delta or NW.
 

Juvat

Used Register
skykid said:
With all the talk about consolidation, Northwest/Delta is one of the few that makes any sense.
No it doesn't. Did you forget to take your smart pills? Go read their financials, son. And before you go, let me give you some sage advice: you can't shine a turd.
 

skykid

On Point
Thanks for adding to the debate there, of course you could bring something besides insults to explain your position. The reason it makes sense is NWA is strong in Asia and Delta is strong in Europe. What you could have brought up is that their fleet types don't match up very well, and that employee groups are historically even harder to mesh than fleets. I'm well aware of what is on their balance sheets, and I believe I have some insight as to how they will progress in the coming months.

If you met me in person, you wouldn't be talking to me the way you write here, I can promise you that. Doing that on a computer is a sign of immaturity and weakness.
 

Dan Roman

Well-known member
Seems to me airline bankruptcies are all about money (big surprise there). The major creditors will do whatever they think benefits them the most, which means keeping as many airplanes flying as possible. Their are people out there that will be looking for opportunities that arise from all this turmoil. So anything can happen including replacing old airplanes with new ones, assuming someone benefits from the deal. NWA's Orient routes won't go away, nor will Delta's ATL hub or NWA's MSP hub, or Delta's European or SA flying etc etc. Their may be some new paint jobs and seat changes, but airplanes will keep flying.

I think for the General to have a positive attitude right now is quite commendable. We are in a profession that requires us to deal with adversity calmly and with a positive attitude, last time I flew with a guy that got all panicky and negative when faced with adversity it took a slap to the face to get him to be more positive.
 

Juvat

Used Register
skykid said:
Thanks for adding to the debate there, of course you could bring something besides insults to explain your position. The reason it makes sense is NWA is strong in Asia and Delta is strong in Europe. What you could have brought up is that their fleet types don't match up very well, and that employee groups are historically even harder to mesh than fleets. I'm well aware of what is on their balance sheets, and I believe I have some insight as to how they will progress in the coming months.

If you met me in person, you wouldn't be talking to me the way you write here, I can promise you that. Doing that on a computer is a sign of immaturity and weakness.
Yeah, whatever. If I met you in person I'd probably hold hands with you and sing Cumbaya. What did you expect in return for the unsupported statement in your first post? Our adoration? Sympathy? Don't get pissy when somebody reminds you to take your smart pills. (Now go take another one).

And to succinctly respond to your current post, please define "strong." Is $5 billion in debt "strong"? Please do enlighten us with your deep wisdom.

And if this insults you too, then my sincerest apologies. If I met you in person, I'd give you a tissue too.
 

profile

Shem Malmquist
Not sure where you got that info, but it's wrong. How did UAL acquire Pan Am routes, FedEx the Tiger routes, etc., etc. Airlines get the routes through bilateral negotiation, and they are then "owned", the airline can sell them with approval, or be acquired, with most, if not all of the routes going along with the sale.

Workin'Stiff said:
BoDean-


I'd be very skeptical of that. NW has fifth freedom rights in Japan that would be forfeited should the NW name "go away." Those rights are very, very exclusive and rest upon the Northwest name remaining intact.
 

skykid

On Point
And to succinctly respond to your current post, please define "strong." Is $5 billion in debt "strong"?
I don't know where you get 5 billion in debt, because that doesn't relate to NWA or Delta. What I wrote was:

The reason it makes sense is NWA is strong in Asia and Delta is strong in Europe.
I don't think there is a dispute that NWA has a "strong" presence in Asia and Delta has a "strong" presence in Europe.

As for the rest of your post, I can assure it has been decades since I've needed a tissue or was "insulted" by someone (it is completely illogical to let someone else affect your attitude or sense of well being). I'm merely pointing out that people like you who write big on the computer, are usually the exact opposite of what you are trying to represent.
 

Juvat

Used Register
skykid said:
...it is completely illogical to let someone else affect your attitude or sense of well being...
Okay Spock. Remember, it is also illogical not to read the label on your smart pills before taking them. Read the large print that says: take orally. They're not suppositories young man. You've been jamming them in the wrong hole, which may be what's really affecting your attitude and sense of well being.
 

Redmeat

People Mover
Juvat said:
skykid said:
...it is completely illogical to let someone else affect your attitude or sense of well being...


Okay Spock. Remember, it is also illogical not to read the label on your smart pills before taking them. Read the large print that says: take orally. They're not suppositories young man. You've been jamming them in the wrong hole, which may be what's really affecting your attitude and sense of well being.
That's what I luv about this board, you never know when someone is gonna make you completely crack up. Juvat, funny stuff man.

No offense skykid.
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Rick James said:
That's funny, and true.
General,
I admire your loyalty, even though I dont agree with your bashing of others at times. The Air Canada example is a stretch as the gov. does'nt have a stake in your Delta or NW.
How did USAir/AWA get those A350s? Remember when Airbus gave them money to eventually order the new birds? Was that because USAir is really the "USA's main airline?" Why did that deal fail at Air Canada if they were "Canada's airline?" And, why was the initial buyer of Air Canada in Bankruptcy a guy from Hong Kong? He pulled out of the deal 3 weeks before they were supposed to come out the first time, right?

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Dan Roman said:
Seems to me airline bankruptcies are all about money (big surprise there). The major creditors will do whatever they think benefits them the most, which means keeping as many airplanes flying as possible. Their are people out there that will be looking for opportunities that arise from all this turmoil. So anything can happen including replacing old airplanes with new ones, assuming someone benefits from the deal. NWA's Orient routes won't go away, nor will Delta's ATL hub or NWA's MSP hub, or Delta's European or SA flying etc etc. Their may be some new paint jobs and seat changes, but airplanes will keep flying.

I think for the General to have a positive attitude right now is quite commendable. We are in a profession that requires us to deal with adversity calmly and with a positive attitude, last time I flew with a guy that got all panicky and negative when faced with adversity it took a slap to the face to get him to be more positive.
Thanks Dan. When I am not on this forum, I am usually crying in the corner. No, I know this whole deal won't be easy at all, and I expect some major plays being played out right in front of us. As far as a merger with NW, that is all speculation, even though some people think it would be a good fit. All I know is that I am happy we have had 2500 Captain retirements in the last 15 months. That helps out a bunch seniority wise and allows some of us to bid up to whatever equipment is left......

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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