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definition of crew rest

porra

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Anyone know where I can find an " FAA LEGAL DEFINITION " of crew rest for 125 OPS?
Chief pilot states " duty day" starts when the paxs are on board and the cabin door is closed even if you have been sitting at the airport ( FBO) for 3 hours and going for 16 hours after.

Thanks
 

GogglesPisano

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Anyone know where I can find an " FAA LEGAL DEFINITION " of crew rest for 125 OPS?
Chief pilot states " duty day" starts when the paxs are on board and the cabin door is closed even if you have been sitting at the airport ( FBO) for 3 hours and going for 16 hours after.

Thanks
Sounds like he is confusing "block time" with "duty time." If you're not on rest -- you're on duty. Rest means, "Free from all duty," -- not sitting in an FBO or getting the airplane ready.

http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_135-273.html
 

sleepy

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Wow, you only get 8 hours of rest in 24 hours under 125.37, so you can be on duty for 16 hours?

Crew rest is defined under 91.1057
 

340drvr

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91.1057 is only applicable for Subpart K fractional operators. 135 and 121 also have "applicable" definition sections for duty and rest, but that does not appear in 125.
One would think that a reasonable interpretation of "rest" would be the same as 121 and 135, i.e. "free from all duty," but it's not there.
Just a guess on my part, but the default limit is probably the same as for Part 91 (other than fractional) operators, 91.13 careless and wreckless, which of course only comes into view if something (bad) happens.
 

porra

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Thank you all for your reply....
Yes there is not much about 125 rest period, you would think rest is rest 121, 135 or 125 would be the same, but I can't find any legal definition on it.
And our POI signed off on this policy, "duty starts when pax's are on board and cabin door is closed. Go figure....

Thanks SLEEPY, I'll check 91.1057
 

rjcap

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Chief pilot states " duty day" starts when the paxs are on board and the cabin door is closed even if you have been sitting at the airport ( FBO) for 3 hours and going for 16 hours after.

Thanks
That's screwed up !
 

Jetdriver69

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In our Part 91 operations, crew duty starts 1.5 hours prior to scheduled takeoff domestic and 2 hours prior international. Crew duty ends when you leave the airport when you complete post flight requirements. Our crew duty day is 10 hours flying and 16 hours crew duty per 24 hour period with a two man crew or 16 hours flying and 18 hours crew duty with a three man crew and a Part 135 approved on board crew rest area. We get a minimum of 12 hours of crew rest between crew duty periods or 24 hours off if we max out a crew duty day. This is all ISBAO approved, but we very rarely ever max out crew duty and the Captain can extend crew duty day by 2 hours on a case by case basis.
 

LJ45

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125.37 Duty period limitations.

(a) Each flight crewmember and flight attendant must be relieved from all duty for at least 8 consecutive hours during any 24-hour period.

(b) The Administrator may specify rest, flight time, and duty time limitations in the operations specifications that are other than those specified in paragraph (a) of this section.

What is in your ops specs or LOA's?

As you can see the 125.37 reg speaks to "rest, flight time and duty time" there is a difference, but if your POI approved it then its ok.
 

LegacyDriver

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That's messed up. I had a friend in a similar situation. He dropped a dime on the employer to the FAA hotline and it caused an investigation. The policy got changed pretty quick. YMMV.
 

atpcliff

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I know a guy in a similar type of regs violation....he went to the FSDO and then the Regional Office....they were both quite annoyed with his complaints...wanted him to be quiet. But, that was 8 years ago, and maybe with these new -121 rest rules, things are changing. The FAA already said they would change -135 F/D/R regs to be very close to the -121 rules down the road.
 

LegacyDriver

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I know a guy in a similar type of regs violation....he went to the FSDO and then the Regional Office....they were both quite annoyed with his complaints...wanted him to be quiet. But, that was 8 years ago, and maybe with these new -121 rest rules, things are changing. The FAA already said they would change -135 F/D/R regs to be very close to the -121 rules down the road.

The Hotline people investigate the FSDO and Regional Offices, too. It is a different path than your friend took I suspect.
 

G3G4

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I fly Part 91, so really all bets are off. But we think of crew rest after you have checked into hotel and had dinner and are in bed ready for sleep. We can interpret what the FAA says all along but your body tells you what you need. When we shut down our plane only after we have checked into hotel does our "crew rest" start. Of course we are fortunate enough to have 4 pilots in our flight department. we dont like to stretch "rest" the boss wants fresh sane minded guys behind the yoke before the next trip. whether its an hour or 10 hour flight. Thats the way it should be. But of course I know its not!!! by any means... hense why we see lots of incidents/accidents. Most of them are never mechanical but somewhere down the chain it was pilot/mechanic/people related..... just my two cents.. If I am forced from a company to go beyond my limit, i need to go back and rethink what I have gotten my self into.. Of course everyone is different. and there should be a "guide line" But I find the "guidelines" not good enough... May be good enough for the FAA or maybe even insurance companies "which dont get involved" but never enough for the crew.. Just my two cents..
 

G3G4

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And I dont agree that there are different regs for different types of ops. 91, 121, 125, 135.. They are all crew.. No private owner is less important than a client chartering an airplane, or passenger in a airliner.. alot of charter operators put "flight Attendants" as Cabin service attendant so they dont fall into as crew. People have to remember CSA or Flight attendants are not only there to serve food. but for Safety. Thats why companies pay money for their training...
 
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