Consolidation of Knowledge

dondk

Don't you wish
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
887
Total Time
enuf
I have a question for those Check Airmen, DPE's, or FAR guru's...

121.343 states you must consolidate within 120 days with a possible extension IF you have a line check BEFORE the expiration of the intial 120 days.

I will expire my intial 120 days in less than 20 days. Company is not too keen on getting me the 40 hours I need to consolidate. What happens on day 121 provided I DID NOT attain the 100 hours and/or I did not receive a PC, PT, or line check?

Is it recurrent? re-training? IOE again? any thoughts woud be greatly appreciated...
 

bayoubandit

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2002
Posts
272
Total Time
5000+
An FO I flew with had this happen to him. They actually had to pull him off the trip. He said they sent him down for a PC, I can't remember if had to have a line check or not. I am guessing FAR 121 covers this so it should be the same for all of us. Hope this helps. Have you tried calling your training dept. for answers or propting to get your remaining 20hrs?
 

avbug

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,602
Total Time
n/a
Dondk,

121.343 actually deals with flight recorders. I believe you are referring to 121.434(g), which requires knowledge consolidation within 120 days.

There are several exceptions to this requirement, however. Grandfather clauses were introduced to recognize those who have prior experience in type before 1995. In your case, the company may extend the 120 day period to 150 days if you continue to meet the other requirements for knowledge and consolidation, and if you have complete refresher training before the 120 days expire.

Aside from that, the FAA may grant exception, but only under unusual circumstances, such as difficulties encountered by a start-up operation, or a new domicile.

You may also substitute one takeoff and landing for one hour of required operational experience, up to 50% of the total experience, except for Group II initial and transition training. This relief is provided for in 121.434(f).

If you reach 120 days, you must undergo a proficiency check. 121.434(g) provides that the 120 day period must proceed either any of the flight maneuvers for an ATP/type practical test, or a proficiency check conducted under 121.441. If you can get refresher training prior to that date, you can go for the extension (from 120 days to 150 days), and hopefully complete your consolidation in that time period. The refresher training will be fastest and probably cheapest for the company, but this close, they should be doing everything in their power to get you the hours and experience and get you done.

The proficiency check in this case may suffice as a limited one, as provided in 121.441(d):

d) A person giving a proficiency check may, in his discretion, waive any of the maneuvers or procedures for which a specific waiver authority is set forth in Appendix F to this part if -

(1) The Administrator has not specifically required the particular maneuver or procedure to be performed;

(2) The pilot being checked is, at the time of the check, employed by a certificate holder as a pilot; and

(3) The pilot being checked is currently qualified for operations under this part in the particular type airplane and flight crewmember position or has, within the preceding six calendar months, satisfactorily completed an approved training program for the particular type airplane.

As Bayoubandid said, get with your training department (via channels, as appropriate) and follow up on this before it grounds you or causes you other headaches.
 

dondk

Don't you wish
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
887
Total Time
enuf
Sorry... it is 121.434 as AVBUG mentioned.

To further this discussion and or problem... My company Express I already received a waiver for consolidation of Knowledge to 240 days (while I have never seen this waiver, it is what we understand to be true). 240 days from my checkride is in about 20 days.

Since my checkride 9/15/01 I was furloughed for 85 days then had a 3 day pseudo "refresher course" (sat in on a recurrent course) then 6 weeks later 3 hours in the sim for currency followed by 3 weeks later the start of my IOE.

Since then I am to understand the 240 day rule is now finished, other than for those of us grandfathered in from the intial 240 day rule. I have heard that we "may not" be eligible for an extension because of the intial length of 121.434 given to us.

I have asked around and I have gotten the basic runaround with the "expect to time out" statement by several senior members (including check airmen)

With my IOE time included and not being allowed to reduce my time with landings I am sitting on just over 40 hours short of consolidation in less than 20 days to go.

So the million dollar answer I seek is since it is looking bleek to consolidate ( I am one of MANY in the situation) is what happens the day AFTER I time out?

A PC, line check or something else to contiinue this would be great but our training department is already behind the 8-ball and I may not even be allowed an extension due to the lenghty intial consolidation I was granted.

I am just trying to prepare for the worst case scenario... Re-training with another IOE, or a simple reccurent with another 120 days to complete.

The other question I seen answered is... what happens to my time now? Will I be able to count the 60 hours towards my "new" consolidation or do I start from scratch?

Thank guys for the answer's I really do appreciate them....

Not saying I do not trust my training department, but getting a "pilot's" prespective is always better in my opinion....
 

avbug

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,602
Total Time
n/a
I'm not really sure what to tell you on that one; it sounds complicated, and a little bizarre.

My gut instinct is that you can't keep the 60 hours; you'll need to start over. You'll need a refresher course as the starting point. There is no need to redo IOE; that's not something that needs to be done for recurrency. Once you've had your initial operating experience, you've had it.

A checkride probably isn't necessary so long as you're current. (Proficiency check).

You can initiate the 120 day period with either a refresher course, or portion of a practical test for a type ride or ATP.

I'll suggest two sources for you. One is your training department through the proper channels, and the other is "Doc," who will give you a lot better information than most of us could hope to find in one lifetime. Try:

http://www.propilot.com/doc/bbs/
 
Top