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I was reading that article from the Arizona Republic that trainerjet posted above. I noticed the quote from JO: "The pilots are going to be stunned by what I offer." I second Steve Canyon---BEWARE!
 
Dear Mr. Bean,

I am assuming that you are a junior pilot at this company....you and your fellow junior pilots that are able to vote better wake up! I was here when we had no contract and this place was crap to work probably one of the worst.It has taken many years and several contracts to get what we have today.This thing J.O. is offering is worse than our first one,he is not doing you any favors only himself.This company was doing just fine until he came along,then he reduced all our flying ,got rid of aircraft and claimed we weren't making any money.Well ,I guess not ,if you are a economics major then you know you do not reduce in size to make a profit.ALPA on the other hand is not going to leave you out in the cold. They have stood by us for the last 16yrs. so who would you trust.Jobs may be over at Mesa but we'll still have jobs.He also has 70 or so million dollars in CCAir how does he justify shutting us down to the board.It is not entirely his company,don't be fooled by these tactics believe me if you have a family you will never see them or be able to afford anything,unemployment would be better.He is a Frank Lorenzo clone with exactly the same plan.We must stand together to win.....This is a poker game gentleman. Do not blink!!!
 
calling the bluff?

Observations from an industry outsider . . .
Intruder One,
It may be a poker game but sounds like you want to call JO's bluff with someone else's chips.

surplus 1
" . . . you are now labor, not management." Maybe it would be more helpful to view labor and management as necessary partners instead of as perennial adversaries. Where do you think all the jobs come from anyway?

I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating. I don't think many people here are looking at the REALLY big picture. Jobs come from profitable companies, not broke ones. Really good jobs come from really profitable companies. Profits=jobs. Simple.
I'm not anti-union but they are often very unreasonable. Income re-distribution didn't work in the old Soviet Union (they called it socialism . . . from each according to their ability to each according to their need). Didn't work there, won't work here. If you as a pilot are not willing to work for peanuts why should the one who has risked his own capital?
9/11 and the recession accelerated the problems ALREADY going on in this industry. If ALPA or whichever union holds fast to show those fat capitalist pigs whose boss, well, you'll have more Freedom Airs.
And by the way, how on God's green earth can one union fairly represent major and regional pilots whose interests are often in opposition to each other?
Face it, the industry is evolving to meet new needs and adjust to new economic realities. That's a much greater force than all the unions combined. The sooner everone faces up to that the sooner everyone will be flying again, and profitably.
Now that that's solved, think I'll go talk to Arabrat and Sharon.
 
BTW . ..

. . . I forgot to say, best of luck to all the CCAir pilots.
 
Prodigal...

Let me clue you in on management pilot relations at a airline,they will never give you anything you don't negotiate for.Comair for example turned down several contracts with a overwhelming majority and finally had to strike before they got a decent contract, but they finally did.And I know all about post 9/11 but that dosen't mean we all of a sudden have to work for nothing.We don't have to have the Comair contract but its has to be more reasonable than the one he's offered.
 
Prodigal is obviously clueless. The airline industry has been and always will be volitile and cyclical. Periods of huge profits followed by periods of financial struggles and furloughs followed by huge profits. During those periods of huge profits, do the airline managements, out of their kind capitalistic hearts, decide to bestow windfalls upon thier employees? Hardly. So, are now the employees to give back what's been negotiated, simply because they demand it? For the "promise" of what they might give you if you do? Strong companies and strong unions have survived this industry and will survive this industry. The Lorenzos and Ornsteins and their "Freedom Airs" will not. The industry has always evolved to meet new needs and adjust to the "new economic realities" of the day. I'd hate to think where this profession would be without ALPA and the other pilot unions. Invariably, whenever you see a "non-union" company operated by the likes of Lorenzo or Ornstein, how long before that pilot group is desperate for representation?
 
I thought you right on surplus1.

And for the person that quoted JO as saying"the pilots are really going to be suprised by what I offer." Well he was right, if it would have came out on Monday insted of Wed. I wouldn't have had to buy any ass wipe for the week. Take the mesa contract if you can call it one, change a few things, label it a Skywest type comtract, and give it to us come on. Gave my notes from the meeting to my 3 year old brother, two minutes latter he did what I wanted to do to them on the way home.
 
Unions

This is probably a gross overgeneralization, but, for what it's worth, I'd say this: Beware of the stories that management tells you. More than likely, they are just that, stories.

I've said on previous threads and will say again: a course(s) in American Labor History should be required for the Aeronautical Science degree along with ground school, systems, aerodynamics and flight phys.

Thanks, folks, for posting the newspaper articles. The articles are some of the best explanations of the controversies I've seen.

Lots of luck in dealing with "management."
 
clueless?

trainerjet,
By your own statement, the airline biz is highly cyclical, and pilots should get more when things are good. Does it not also follow by your own example that when things are bad there needs to be some give in order to assure the viability of the companies?
Give and take. Now may be the time to give a little in order that there may still be company around later from which to take when things get better.
 
Prodigal,

Contracts are negotiated and then become amendable after a period of years. Often companies ask for some type of relief via LOAs or concessions in subsequent negotiations during the down cycles. It has been my experience that once something is given up to the company, it is very difficult to get it back. Certainly, not without giving something else up in return. Even rarer is the company that approaches the pilot group when times are good offering to sweeten the pot. Give and take would be a great idea, but only at the most elightened of companies is this type of atmosphere a reality. I very seriously doubt that Ornstein's Mesa Air Group is this type of company.
 

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