Bad Jumpseat Experience

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SpeedRacer

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Just passing this guys story on...Speed

The following is from a Delta guy. He's been on my jumpseat from ATL to TYS, and I recall him being a very nice guy. His story is extremely unfortunate ...

Dave



I am posting this incident in the hopes that someone, some day will run into CVG-based Comair Capt. ***CENSORED*** on the line and return the favor.

I had a recent trip on the ATL 73N that had a ALB layover followed by a one-leg deadhead return to Atlanta. I commute from Knoxville, and got permission from crew sched to deviate from the deadhead. My plan was to take a Comair flight from ALB to CVG, then home to TYS, which would get me home about 6 hours earlier than my scheduled deadhead.

I went to the airport (in uniform), and listed non-rev for the flight. The agent said it was tight, but I should make it on. Just in case, she suggested I fill out a jumpseat pass to save time if the flight was full. Good idea -- I did it. They boarded, and ended up with a seat for me in back, the last seat. I got my boarding pass and boarded, showing the flight attendant the pass as I got on. A few moments later, the f/a came to me and said, "The Captain says your seat is broken." In hindsight, the flag should have gone up...why would the Captain be aware of a cabin discrepancy the f/a wasn't? I went to the cockpit, introduced myself to the Capt, and said, "I understand seat 12B is broken?" "That's right," he said.
"In that case, can I have your permission to ride your jumpseat to Cincy? I have the form already filled out."
"No, you can't."
I was perplexed. "Why, is the jumpseat broken, too?"
"No...I don't take Delta guys."
At this point, I was in shock. "Can I ask why not?" I asked, trying to stay calm.
"I don't like the way you guys treated us during our strike."
I thought to myself, the only things I remember doing during your strike was writing out assessment checks for your strike benefits, and making sure none of my flights were struck work, while you guys were suing us for date-of-hire seniority list integration. But I kept my mouth shut. I said some futile stuff about how I was sorry if he'd had a bad experience, but we should take it to the appropriate level, and not personalize it, I'm a line pilot just like you, etc, etc, but to no avail. "No - sorry" was all he'd say.

Now the story gets really surreal. At this point, the f/a came to the cockpit to tell us that they actually ended up with two open seats in back -- the "broken" one I was issued, and another in the first row. So I said, "In that case, can I just use a non-rev pass to ride in that seat, and we don't have to worry about the jumpseat?"
"No, you can't," he replied.
"Why not?"
"I won't take you in the front or back."
The gate agent was on the aircraft at this point, also, and, looking completely baffled, she shrugged her shoulders. The flight attendant was similarly mystified. The F/O was just staring at his feet, completely silent, probably embarrassed to be sharing the cockpit with Mr. ***CENSORED***
"Let me get this straight," I asked him again, "you won't let me ride in the jumpseat, and you won't let me use my travel benefits to ride in back on a pass?!?"
"That's right."
"Just because I'm a Delta pilot."
"That's right." He wouldn't let me see his ID, so I asked his name, which he gave me reluctantly, and mumbled, so I had him spell it.
"I need yours, too," he retorted menacingly. I almost laughed with disbelief over the whole thing as I handed him my ID.
"OK, see ya," I said and got off the aircraft with the agent. After the ramp guys retrieved my bags, they buttoned up and pushed back as I watched in bewilderment.

I am not downplaying my reactions, or overplaying his. I never laid eyes on the guy before, never raised my voice, or lost my composure throughout, although I wanted to pull the asshole out of the cockpit and beat the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** out of him in the worst way.

I filed a report with the ALPA jumpseat committee, but that won't do anything as far as disciplinary action. When I got back to ATL, hours later, I told ass't Chief Pilot Joe Fusco the story. He pulled me into Alan Price's office where I repeated it to their amazement. They got pretty fired up, and had me write a written report, which I did. I have no idea if this jerk will ever see any repercussions from Comair, though he deserves to be fired, in my opinion. I sincerely hope, however, that someone who reads this will run across him stranded somewhere, in desperate need of one of our jumpseats, and the old "what goes around comes around" principle will take effect.

Anyone has my complete permission to forward this, copy it, post it anywhere, distribute it, whatever. I would be happy to provide any details like flight #, date, time, etc, if anyone needs them.

Andy K.
ATL 73NB
 
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trainerjet

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Speed-

It's been dealt with...over and over....keep the names off a public forum.
 

w8n4swa

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Unprofessional pilot!

What's up with this guy? I can't believe he would deny someone an open seat. As a professional pilot, a jumpseat should never be used for personal or political reasons. Doesn't this violate the professional code of ethics?

As wrong as this captain was, however, he should not be denied a seat as retaliation. I hope his poor behavior does not become contagious with other pilots.

As Rodney King once said "Can't we all just get along" :p
 
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CitrusPahlot

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This is what we did last night

Last night in ATL, our flight was nearly full, but we got everyone on and the gate agent was pulling the jetway off on time. Through the cockpit we could see there was an AA pilot up at the counter wanting to jumpseat, but there was no gate agent there to help him. Since the baggage guys were still breaking suitcase handles down below, we got the gate agent to put the jetway back on and go back up and get him and bring him down. We opened the door back up, got his ID checked, got his butt in a one of the last few seats and departed.

BTW, we still arrived on time.

I have a long offline commute and I love it when we can help another commuter!
 

FearlessFreep

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Jumpseats are a priveledge and not a right.

The most important thing to realize is that just one "rotten apple" from any one operator can ruin it for the rest of the crewmembers.

Painfully I will relate a small incident that I had a while ago. I have held back on telling this story because it will probably upset people, but since the above narrative has been posted once again I find it necessary. I do not wish to inflame or insult anyone, this is just exactly what happened.

I walked up to a gate of a Pacific Northwest carrier that has always been friendly, cordial and accomodating. I asked if I could jumpseat that morning and the gate agent's response was, "Are you with XYZ Airline?" I stated that I was not and she said "Good!, Because we don't take any of their kind" I queried as to why and she said "because they are forceful, rude and their attitude stinks!" She quickly and broadly related to me a number of incidents she had to endure.

This just goes to prove that EVERYONE without exception better treat every other operator with respect, dignity, cooperation and humble thankfulness for being able to secure a jumpseat.

IMHO the individual that was being refused a jumpseat should have not pushed the issue to the extent that he did. It was painfully obvious that the Captain did not want him on the aircraft. This may not be construed as professional behavior but it is the Captain's discretion as to who may jumpseat. The jumpseating pilot was being unprofessional himself in trying to wheedle, cajoule, or otherwise force himself on that aircraft. He should have sat on his pride or need, back down and try to jumpseat on another flight.

Everyone has I am sure at one point had a negative jumpseat experience. Guess what, be thankful that you can jumpseat at all and just s**k it up and stop whining! And for the sake of us all try not to screw up and offend anyone!


Have Fun!
 

AlbieF15

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Trainerjet,

In speedracer's defense...

If you are going to be such a tool to offline guys, you can expect some retribution. There is no reason to hold every other Comair pilot liable for this one guy's act. The only way to discourage such actions is to make it public. If you have a personal beef with Delta pilots, or anyone else...you as the Captain are the final authority for who can and cannot fly on your jet. However, don't expect to hide in the weeds and not be a known jerk...especially when its time for LORs at a major. There are precedents to using names--I'll be you have a "non-members list" somewhere in your flightbag.

As for offline commuting...again...THANK YOU to Express one, ASA, Air Tran, and Mesaba. The cookies don't do justice to the favor your provide, and the rides are very much appreciated. As mentioned in previous posts, we hope FedEx soon has offline guys allowed to fly with us again very soon.

Albie
 

trainerjet

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My point is that is IS known...by ALPA and by the companies involved. And they are handling it. Besides..if you want to read the whole story, go to the ALPA site. There are numerous posts by the pilot involved. Not just one. BTW...I'm not in any way defending this @#@##. I just think there are proper channels by which to handle it. Posting his name here on this public forum is not one of them..my opinion.

And yes, I do have a "non-members" list. I just don't place it here for anyone to view.
 

CRJPilot

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This issue has gotten way out of hand on the message boards, but much more so on the ALPA site. I am not defending the CMR Captain, but I know that he has been counceled and is currently acting in a more professional manner. This does not excuse his actions, but the appropriate actions have been taken and there has been plenty of lambasting from other CMR pilots in response. I doubt it will happen again.

Let me also say that this is a problem that has been brewing between ASA/CMR/DAL for the last several years and most certainly the last few months. This is the first incident that I am aware of from a CMR pilot denying a DAL pilot. But I can tell you for certain that there have been multiple denials of CMR and ASA pilots by the DAL pilots. Most of which occured prior to the Captain K. incident. I personally experienced two of them myself. I elected to keep the names off public forums for fear of starting a jumpseat war. That was probably wise since we have seen what happens when the dirty laundry goes out over the internet. I handled my incidents in house through the proper channels and they have been resolved. I am not exactly satisfied with the disposition since there was/is no restitution on my side. But at least the offending parties did suffer some embarrassment and I guess that will have to do.

Listen people, even though I have been screwed over a few times myself and had some other very uncomfortable JS experiences - I don't take it out on anyone else. That's what we all need to do because we're all in this together. Many people rely on this priviledge. Let's not let the few A.H.'s ruin it for all of us by letting this snowball.

Thanks for listening


CRJPilot
(Comair)
 

rapidD

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Denying someone the jumpseat is one thing...and obviously a captain's prerogative. Denying someone their company-negotiated pass privelege is something entirely different. I hope this guy is not holding out for a DAL interview someday.
 

SpeedRacer

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Jumpseat

Okay, okay, I "sanitized" the original message since "trainerjet" was getting all upset over this guy's name on the board.

I also didn't know this was posted several weeks ago, I check this board on a very irregular schedule....

I in no way wanted to start a "jumpseat war"! I was simply passing on an interesting e-mail I recently received. Geez, I commute and am always thankful to get a ride to/from work.

As soon as FedEx and the FAA straighten out our jumpseat mess - any pilot is always welcomed aboard our jumpseat.

Glad to hear though the Comair Capt ***CENSORED*** got counseled!!:D

Speedy
 
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ifly4food

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This incident was debated extensively here about a month ago. I stated then that we would not be allowing the individual's name to be publicly aired on this public board. Those with access can see it on the ALPA site. I will not open this site to legal action by allowing his name to be posted here.

This is the end result of this incident: An investigation was made and it turned out that the seat was indeed broken and properly written up. The FA just wasn't aware. Also, the a/c left with 49 passengers so the Delta pilot had no case (his pass privilleges weren't denied as the aircraft was full). It was within the Captain's authority to deny the jumpseat (even though he was a jerk for it). The Comair pilot was "counseled" by ALPA professional standards and his chief pilots, but no sanctions have taken or will take place.

I don't appreciate the pilots name being here.
I am closing this thread.
If4f,
Moderator
 
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