Avoid at all cost

CUEBOAT

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I was working for a realestate developer known as the*************** ave in Miami FL. Under the ********** are many companies.I was working specifcally for a co. called ******** which on paper is a Bahamian co. When I begun employemeent I signed a payment agreement for $27,000 stating they would pay me this for a years employment. About 6 weeks ago the co purchacased a Caravan to replace the chieftain I had been flying. I was supposed to go to Caravan FlightSeafety on Aug ****. On August *** I was flying the chieftain and was struck by lightning at about 4000agl, I lost vision for a few seconds and the airplane ended up inverted. I was sinking like a 7000lbs paper weight, I did what i had to to avoid taking a dirt nap in the atlantic ocean, which involded wrinkling the wings a bit. The co. wants the insurance to call it a total loss the insurance wants to repair it. 2 A&P say it can be fixed.I wish at the time I knew my fate but i was under the assumption everything was fine so I played nice with the insurance co., I wish i would have just walked away and made no claim to have been flying the A/C when it happened.(Part91) So this past thursday I am told I no longer have a job because i can't be insured due to my low total time. The boss then offered to help me find a job, I asked then if i could have a severance package and i'll look for my own job. He agrees and we agree to meet on monday. Keep in mind i moved from NYC to Miami for this job. Monday rolls around we meet, long story short he says he is giving me nothing, i pull out my contract and show him he owes me $23,000, he snatches it from my hand and steals it from me. He claims it is really his because i made the copy on his copy machine. At this point I decide i won't win.
 
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avbug

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There are so many things wrong with that post I can't begin to think where to start tackling them. You're a low time pilot working for twenty seven thousand a year, but have expeirence flying a G IV from your self-statement. You were flying a navajo out over the ocean and lost control, and wrinkled the wings, and are surprised that you are no longer employed to fly that airplane. You claim to be a professional pilot, but then make the statement that you wish you'd claimed you were never flying the aircraft that was damaged (while you were flying it). You are flying under contract, but have only one copy of a xerox of the "contract."

You seem to be under the impression that because the flight was operated under Part 91, then you have no obligation or responsibility.

Pilots are disposable. And a dime a dozen.

Do you think the fact that you made a move on the companies behalf means anything to the employer? Of course not.

That the airplane had wrinkled wings and your employer still offered to help you find another job is rather amazing. That's a very generous offer on the part of your employer. That you turned it down is rather foolish.

Your story reminds me of someone who came to us looking for a seat this spring. He had about 800 hours of convential gear time, but only in small equipment, and nothing in ag equipment. We told him to go get several hundred hours of time in an ag airplane to at least give something to the insurance company. He got a job with a company towing gliders in an ag truck. It was a start. He made three landings before totalling the aircraft, losing control on the third landing.

When I spoke to him after the fact, he said it was okay, it shouldn't count because he wasn't actually employed, and it was just a glider operation anyway. His sense of personal responsibility for destroying the aircraft and a man's business was nill; he felt he had been wronged because the employer had asked him to do wheel landings and he couldn't do them...he groundlooped and crashed the airplane trying to wheel land.

I see a great deal of similiarity between his attitude and yours.

You haven't tried your hand in an Ag Truck, lately, have you?
 

falconpilot

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avbug said:
There are so many things wrong with that post I can't begin to think where to start tackling them. You're a low time pilot working for twenty seven thousand a year, but have expeirence flying a G IV from your self-statement. You were flying a navajo out over the ocean and lost control, and wrinkled the wings, and are surprised that you are no longer employed to fly that airplane. You claim to be a professional pilot, but then make the statement that you wish you'd claimed you were never flying the aircraft that was damaged (while you were flying it). You are flying under contract, but have only one copy of a xerox of the "contract."

You seem to be under the impression that because the flight was operated under Part 91, then you have no obligation or responsibility.

Pilots are disposable. And a dime a dozen.

Do you think the fact that you made a move on the companies behalf means anything to the employer? Of course not.

That the airplane had wrinkled wings and your employer still offered to help you find another job is rather amazing. That's a very generous offer on the part of your employer. That you turned it down is rather foolish.

Your story reminds me of someone who came to us looking for a seat this spring. He had about 800 hours of convential gear time, but only in small equipment, and nothing in ag equipment. We told him to go get several hundred hours of time in an ag airplane to at least give something to the insurance company. He got a job with a company towing gliders in an ag truck. It was a start. He made three landings before totalling the aircraft, losing control on the third landing.

When I spoke to him after the fact, he said it was okay, it shouldn't count because he wasn't actually employed, and it was just a glider operation anyway. His sense of personal responsibility for destroying the aircraft and a man's business was nill; he felt he had been wronged because the employer had asked him to do wheel landings and he couldn't do them...he groundlooped and crashed the airplane trying to wheel land.

I see a great deal of similiarity between his attitude and yours.

You haven't tried your hand in an Ag Truck, lately, have you?
Give the kid a break... He already lost his job... And now you want to give him a lecture... Yea he f*cked up... Luckily he made it out ok... Have you never f*cked up?
 

Gulfstream 200

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This post is pretty disturbing.....

You come home with a totaled aircraft and a story about t-storms, lightning strkies, innverted, and almost spashing in the ocean...

and you want a severance? I would have given you a smack in the head right after you were fired. You just cost me more in insurance premium rise than you make in 5 years. Sorry pal its business.

You just sound GEN X, like you dont accept any responsibilty? ($hit happens, right?) did you have pax on this flight?

maybe he thought about his / his employees lives in your hands?

Got news for you, you're a pilot --- you are 100% disposable (as you now know)

Sorry, from how you explain it, I would have canned you on the spot.
 
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Give the kid a break... He already lost his job... And now you want to give him a lecture... Yea he f*cked up... Luckily he made it out ok... Have you never f*cked up?

Yeah, he f*cked up or is f*cked up, that's why he is an AgPilot
 

avbug

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Give the kid a break... He already lost his job... And now you want to give him a lecture... Yea he f*cked up... Luckily he made it out ok... Have you never f*cked up?
Yes, I have "f*cked up," and yes, I have taken personal responsibility for it on the spot...not thrown responsibility on everyone else, then condemned my employer for my mistakes publically. Give him a break? He's the one who posted his errors, then in the same post not only denied responsibility, but began to condemn those around him. Give him a break for what, exactly?

Yeah, he f*cked up or is f*cked up, that's why he is an AgPilot
Boy, you really don't want to go there. I fly ag by choice, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to do so. I don epaulettes, a white, shirt, and tie in order to fill in the spare time when not flying utility aircraft, but have always considered that the backup plan. I find every year that my skills deteriorate and erode as an aviator in between spray and fire seasons...but I certainly never elected to fly ag because it was a step down.

Many moons ago I was in Grangeville, ID, on a fire contract in a large airplane. I had a day off, and did a day trip down the Salmon river. I was in a raft with the owner of the company, both of us enjoying the quiet and the river. A girl in the boat asked him what he did. He told her. She looked puzzled, and then asked him if he hoped to fly for the airlines some day.

He looked her for a moment, and tried to say it as truthfully and evenly as he could, without being obtuse. "Well, maam, that would be a step...down."

I nearly fell out of the boat, I was laughing so hard.

He was right.
 

bugchaser

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I don't think that Avbug was lecturing him because he f*cked up. The problem with the guy and many others is that nobody wants to accept any responibility for their own actions. Everyone wants to blame someone else for their own actions. What would you want the employer to do? Let him keep his job? Sounds like he lost control of the airlpane and destroyed it. Very lucky that whoever was onboard was not killed. Whats amazing to me is how some of these guys think that they are ready for the real world with x amount of hours and no real experience. The real world is harsh, especially in aviation. You don't get to f*ck up. Count your blessings that you are not dead. If that sounds harsh, it was meant to be.
 

CUEBOAT

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I never made claim to being an ag pilot? Simply warning others to avoid this company if they can help it. Well when I get screwed I tend to have some pretty harsh feelings. I dont know what you guys read but I did take full responsibility for the aircraft. I don't think I should have been told 2 weeks after it happened that I no longer have a job. I wish I was told immediatley I would have been in a better position. I just didn't like the fact that i was strung along , why didn't the company man up and tell me what they felt? I have zero respect for those pilots that view themselves as disposable, I guess that is part of the reason this industry is as bad as it is. I think im getting out for good, a person can make more money with no real skills driving a taxi in nyc with far less responsibility. I dont know but i don't think that makes sense.
 

avbug

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Well when I get screwed I tend to have some pretty harsh feelings.
That you have harsh feelings is not in dispute. Who "screwed" who is a little more ambiguous. I believe it was you that wrecked your bosses airplane, was it not, or did we get that part wrong?

I dont know what you guys read but I did take full responsibility for the aircraft.
Juxtaposed to:

I wish i would have just walked away and made no claim to have been flying the A/C when it happened.(Part91)
I don't think I should have been told 2 weeks after it happened that I no longer have a job. I wish I was told immediatley I would have been in a better position. I just didn't like the fact that i was strung along , why didn't the company man up and tell me what they felt?
You totalled their aircraft by flying a piston engine airplane over the ocean in thunderstorms at night, and they kept you employed for an additional two weeks, and then offered to help find you another job when their insurance would no longer carry you due to your recent accident history and total lack of experience. You find this unfair exactly HOW??

I have zero respect for those pilots that view themselves as disposable, I guess that is part of the reason this industry is as bad as it is.
Lets see here, pilot flies piston airplane out over the ocean at night in thunderstorms, gets struck by lightening, destroys airplane...and has complete disrespect for others who view themselves as disposable. If you're willing to push yourself that far, you've got to know that sooner or later you're a statistic. Seems you're the one who views himself as being disposable, else you wouldn't be doing that now, would you? You have, therefore, zero respect for yourself.

By your own assertion, logic follows, you are to blame for the industry problems, and from your posts, indeed you are. You feel the world owes you a living, you feel that you are something you are not. Apparently neither your employer, nor the industry, agrees with you. The insurance company apparently doesn't see things the way you do, either. Be sure to slam them while you're up on that soapbox.

Pilots are a dime a dozen, and from the corporate perspective, we are all disposable. Have you not learned that by now?


I think im getting out for good, a person can make more money with no real skills driving a taxi in nyc with far less responsibility.
A wise decision, perhaps the best one you've made yet. Apparently a person can make a living with no skills in a Navajo, too, though there's always that 27,000 dollar thing and the responsibility.

When I begun employemeent I signed a payment agreement for $27,000 stating they would pay me this for a years employment.
You aren't by chance talking about a salary, are you?

Monday rolls around we meet, long story short he says he is giving me nothing, i pull out my contract and show him he owes me $23,000, he snatches it from my hand and steals it from me.
Would that be the xeroxed copy of the "contract," your only copy in this lonely world, the one that spelled out your salary (the one to which you were no longer entitled because your employment had been terminated)? That contract? You didn't happen to see the words "at will" at any point in that contract, did you?

I don't believe I've seen any pilot salary contract that promised the money regardless of the term of employment, and regardless of pilot performance. You got quite a deal there, but it was probably because of your vast experience in high dollar turbojet equipment (GIV, wasn't it?). Shame your boss stole your contract from you, though. What are bosses coming to these days?

At this point I decide i won't win.
Most folks would have figured that out a long time ago.

I did what i had to to avoid taking a dirt nap in the atlantic ocean, which involded wrinkling the wings a bit.
That whole "dirt nap" thing sounds really dramatic, almost micky spillaneesque. All you needed was a broad, and a dark rainy night. Actually, you had the dark rainy night...anybody else on board with you at the time?

Just how does one take a "dirt nap" in the ocean? Does the ocean not wash off the dirt? Where does the dirt come from? Can one nap in the ocean? Or is that just a figure of speech?

What does one do from 4,000' at night in a thunderstorm after being struck by lightening to wrinkle wings and avoid taking a dirt nap, anyway? I'd think that at a minimum your employer would be paying you at least the cost of the airplane for such strong flying skills that you managed to fly the wreckage home to him so that he could file a claim.

Keep going. This is good stuff. You're about fifteen feet down and still digging...
 

Diesel

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Two interesting things that will come from this.

1. You won't reference GIV or DA-50 flight time when you go inverted in a navajo in a thunderstorm. Who does that stuff anymore?

2. The owner of the plane is going to pay to make sure that he has a qualified high time pilot in the front seat from now on. He went cheap and it cost him a ton.

I would have fired you in a second. What were you doing flying that close to a thunderstorm.
 

A.W.E.S.O.M-O

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CUEBOAT has also failed to mention that after his ride through the tstorm, he did another roundtrip the same day from OPF to Bimini and back with pax. Sean should have fired you on the spot, not for only wrecking his navajo, but for puting him and his employee's in an unsafe situation after the incident.
 

Yank McCobb

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A.W.E.S.O.M-O said:
CUEBOAT has also failed to mention that after his ride through the tstorm, he did another roundtrip the same day from OPF to Bimini and back with pax. Sean should have fired you on the spot, not for only wrecking his navajo, but for puting him and his employee's in an unsafe situation after the incident.
Based on this info, and his own previous posts, this person should have his certificates revoked. He has no business flying period. Let him go drive a taxi. Wait...on second thought, he has no business even doing that.

I think he should just go back to Brooklyn and see what he can turn up by hanging out on the street.
 

CUEBOAT

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avbug said:
That you have harsh feelings is not in dispute. Who "screwed" who is a little more ambiguous. I believe it was you that wrecked your bosses airplane, was it not, or did we get that part wrong?

Who wrecked an airplane it will fly again?



Juxtaposed to:

just like i did




You totalled their aircraft by flying a piston engine airplane over the ocean in thunderstorms at night, and they kept you employed for an additional two weeks, and then offered to help find you another job when their insurance would no longer carry you due to your recent accident history and total lack of experience. You find this unfair exactly HOW??


Who was in a thunderstorm?, Avbug you can keep on playing monday morning quarterback all day long. Accident? It was an incident read up on part 830, all knowing all seeing overloard of aviation Avbug


Lets see here, pilot flies piston airplane out over the ocean at night in thunderstorms, gets struck by lightening, destroys airplane...and has complete disrespect for others who view themselves as disposable. If you're willing to push yourself that far, you've got to know that sooner or later you're a statistic. Seems you're the one who views himself as being disposable, else you wouldn't be doing that now, would you? You have, therefore, zero respect for yourself.

By your own assertion, logic follows, you are to blame for the industry problems, and from your posts, indeed you are. You feel the world owes you a living, you feel that you are something you are not. Apparently neither your employer, nor the industry, agrees with you. The insurance company apparently doesn't see things the way you do, either. Be sure to slam them while you're up on that soapbox.

Pilots are a dime a dozen, and from the corporate perspective, we are all disposable. Have you not learned that by now?

Night time? it was day although not completly sunny, again a/c wasnt destroyed. $27,000 for a part time job(2-3 days a week)in a piston twin home every night is excellent pay if you ask me, considering the condition of this industry. Avbug please stop typing as if you know how i feel, you are the one on a soapbox.



A wise decision, perhaps the best one you've made yet. Apparently a person can make a living with no skills in a Navajo, too, though there's always that 27,000 dollar thing and the responsibility.

No skills? Ill take an Avbug checkride if you want me to prove you wrong. I'll even let you choose the plane as long as your paying


You aren't by chance talking about a salary, are you?


um yeah


Would that be the xeroxed copy of the "contract," your only copy in this lonely world, the one that spelled out your salary (the one to which you were no longer entitled because your employment had been terminated)? That contract? You didn't happen to see the words "at will" at any point in that contract, did you?

I don't believe I've seen any pilot salary contract that promised the money regardless of the term of employment, and regardless of pilot performance. You got quite a deal there, but it was probably because of your vast experience in high dollar turbojet equipment (GIV, wasn't it?). Shame your boss stole your contract from you, though. What are bosses coming to these days?

Avbug I dont believe you have seen everything, ever think the reason it was stolen was because I would win in court???? I have jet expierence, not much. however i'll even allow you to exam my logbook if you wish


Most folks would have figured that out a long time ago



That whole "dirt nap" thing sounds really dramatic, almost micky spillaneesque. All you needed was a broad, and a dark rainy night. Actually, you had the dark rainy night...anybody else on board with you at the time?

Just how does one take a "dirt nap" in the ocean? Does the ocean not wash off the dirt? Where does the dirt come from? Can one nap in the ocean? Or is that just a figure of speech?

What does one do from 4,000' at night in a thunderstorm after being struck by lightening to wrinkle wings and avoid taking a dirt nap, anyway? I'd think that at a minimum your employer would be paying you at least the cost of the airplane for such strong flying skills that you managed to fly the wreckage home to him so that he could file a claim.

Keep going. This is good stuff. You're about fifteen feet down and still digging...
Well since the Attitude and HSI were worthless I suppose looping the A/C caused the damage. Yor childish banter about my figure of speech is amusing. All i know is that an a/c wings were bent for my life and I am fine with it. I was indeed solo, furher more I wasn't in a TS I was 30 miles east of one.
 
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CUEBOAT

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A.W.E.S.O.M-O said:
CUEBOAT has also failed to mention that after his ride through the tstorm, he did another roundtrip the same day from OPF to Bimini and back with pax. Sean should have fired you on the spot, not for only wrecking his navajo, but for puting him and his employee's in an unsafe situation after the incident.

The damage on the A/C is very minimal. 6 pieces of wing skin will fix that aircraft. I know taking another trip wasn't the best thing to do. However I did it and I have to live with my mistakes. i know I m not perfect so when you make you first mistake of your life please inform me so I can advise you on it.
 

English

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CUEBOAT, might I suggest you do yourself a favor and DELETE this thread? If you are unsuccessful editing your posts, then write to the webmaster and ask him to delete this thread for you. You've made some serious mistakes, but you've escalated it past your ability to control by posting about it here.
 

Redmeat

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Diesel said:
I would have fired you in a second. What were you doing flying that close to a thunderstorm.
Was riding in the back of a seven-five last summer (non-rev), wont mention the name of the carrier. Anyway, penetrated a Tstorm real good boy. I knew the pilots and they admitted it was imbedded and didn't show up (on radar) supposedly. Anyway if you rode this out single pilot in a NavaJO AND still had sack to do another round trip that day, you don't lack balls guy.
 

say again

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I'm gonna have to agree with avbug here!!! You royally f-ed up and are lucky to still be alive.


I have a question-

If you say that you were "30 miles" from a TS, how did you become inverted and be struck by lightning??? If your story is true (unlikely), then you had no business being up there , with pax, with such poor instrument skills !!!!!!
 

CUEBOAT

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say again said:
I'm gonna have to agree with avbug here!!! You royally f-ed up and are lucky to still be alive.


I have a question-

If you say that you were "30 miles" from a TS, how did you become inverted and be struck by lightning??? If your story is true (unlikely), then you had no business being up there , with pax, with such poor instrument skills !!!!!!
I know i've made mistakes, i never said i didnt. As far as lightning, you need nether clouds nor a TS to create it. Lightning has been seen up to 60 miles from a storm. If you also like to give me a checkride ill take it. i am confident in my Instrument skills
 
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