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American Flyers

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Playing the games, the BS, that's why they call it work. At least that's what my boss says. In my corporate job, you need wings to stay above the BS: the knee jerk reactions, the petty turf battles, poor planning, no planning. I know actors making seven figures whom complain about the bull; they think they have the hardest job in the world.

In the current business climate, what are the odds of being hired at AF if you go through the instructor program? How many schools of any type are hiring instructors?

Thanks
 
I've instructed at Flyers since January. The time racks up quickly, but I had to work 6 days a week for that to happen. I'm about to head off to a 135 company.....all in all...it was a good experience. I built good time and learned an enormous amount over the last year.
The training is top quality, but you are gonna pay for it. The rates just went up and they're going up again in January. Don't plan on doing any multi training here either because we got rid of all the twins over the summer. Apparently too expensive to operate....although I can't see how they can't make money on them given the rates they charge.
Lemme know if you have anymore specific questions....Good Luck.
 
"The games people play now"

Apologies to Joe South. Don't understand why I'm in a musical mood. :)

You're right, you are the customer. Up until the point when you hand in your resume. Unfortunately, one of the determining factors of weather or not you are hired as an instructor, is how you played your cards when you were the customer. "Playing the game" doesn't mean letting anyone walk all over you, just watch what you say and when you say it. SOMETIMES it's just best to keep your thoughts to yourself, bite the bullet and deal with it. There are several posts on this board (and the old one) that clearly prove that this is a game you must learn to play, not only with this or any other flight school, but within the industry. [emphasis added to original]

ILLINI hit the nail precisely on the head. Aviation is a very personality-oriented business. Stories abound about how lesser-qualified pilots were hired simply because the interviewers liked them. I saw it first hand a number of times.

Example: I had a student at Mesa who really was a decent enough student. He was prepared and would learn. But he did obnoxious things that antagonized everyone. He felt he was owed. No instructor wanted to have him. E.g., he demanded that I come in early to work with him, which I refused after pointing out to him my workday. He refused to be scheduled on weekends, which were two normal workdays for me. Then, he refused to be scheduled altogether. Then, he made inordinate demands on my time to finish his course. Finally, he argued with me vehemently during a flight, while we were on a clearance, on MY ticket. The upshot of it is Mesa students are scrutinized closely on how well they work within its system and how well they get along with people. This guy drove me nuts. The long and short of it is this student's conduct cost him the chance to interview with the airline. That, in no small part, was the name of the game at MAPD. The Chief Instructor said to me there was no way we could send such a person to interview because it would reflect very badly on the school.

Folks, even though you're shelling out $30K you still need to play the game with the higher-ups at your school if you want a chance at a job after you finish, even if you have to bite your tongue and maybe swallow some pride in the process.
 
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I don't disagree with any single item posted on this thread. However, there are two items that need to be addressed in more detail...cost and instructor compensation.

First, American Flyers is expensive. One of the reasons they have such a high cost structure is they do most, if not all, maintenance in house. Another reason they are expensive is their facilities are set up to train students as rapidly and efficiently (at the lowest possible cost to AF!) as possible. Their facilities are set up to accomplish that.

Second, instructor compensation may vary from one school to another. When I taught for AF in FTW/ADS, I started at six dollars/hour in a part-time status. When I went full-time, my pay went to seven an hour. I left in 1997 making nine dollars/hour. I never made over $1,000 in any month there. Rumor, at the time, said instructors in Illinois made more because AF had to comply with state laws regarding medical insurance and state-mandated minimum compensation for full-time employees. I emphasize that as rumor. I do not know if it is accurate.

The CFI program is designed for the pilot who is current and proficient. American Flyers knows that and they also know a good many (like me!) come to them to regain currency and work toward additional certification.

There advantages and disadvantages to schools like American Flyers. Those who benefit are those who can commit to a full day for 30 straight days. If perspective students can't/won't do that, they should look elsewhere.
 
American Flyer$ pay

My friend, you were underpaid. I hope you got away from there quickly to bigger and better things. NO ONE should work for such low pay.

Let me provide a few 10-year-old-plus examples. You can adjust them up for the new millenium as necessary.

MAPD: I was paid $15 per contact hour in 1993.

FSI: I don't have my old pay records at hand, but in 1991 I was paid something like $10-$12 per contact hour. There was also some kind of bonus system in place for generating 100+ contact hours in a month. I also was on salary for a while at $20K+. I hear that FSI pays $15/hr now.

ERAU: Something like $11-$13 per contact hour in 1989, plus bonus for more than 1000 contact hours. I knew one guy who made great money, $30K+. I was paid $25K salary as a stage check pilot, which was generous pay in my .02 opinion and extremely competitive with commuter captain pay in those days.

I realize as well as anyone that instructing pays entry-level wages. But try not to take less than $10/hour if you can.
 
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i currentllt work at the flyers inthe chicago area, full time pay is 1200$ a month, for the first year, after that it goes up to 1400$. their are perks though, their is a trainer pool for full time instructors i believe 10$ for every hour the simulator makes revenue. after 100 hours of revenue time your pay is then hurly on top of your salary, its 12$ hour for up to 150, then 16$ aboove that, this increases after a year of time. you can easly pull in 1500 clar of taxes each month, thats not even working hard. i really dont know how other flyers schools work, i do believe its the same. i am now part time and my pay is 15$, but from what i seen you can negiotate this, not to sure though, im happy with 15$ im not in it for the money, but does not mean ill take nothing.
antney
 
AF Training

I just wanted to add that when I started at ERAU thirteen years ago an instructor who was training with me was an AF grad. He trained in Florida, I believe. I remember him saying that he started from zero time and flew 700 hours his first year flying. I remember him talking about applying at that point to Comair. Then, just over a year later with a bunch more time under his belt, he got hired.

Evidentally, the place works.
 
overall the school is probaly one of the best to instruct at. a lot of our instructors work at chicago express, while some are at some nice cargo or corporate outfits. american flyers is one of the most repetuable flight schools out there, is it the best i cant answer that ive only been at american flyers and panm in phoenix, i do believe panam is just as good, but the nice thing about flyers is that its a tight nit group of instructors, youll make lifetime friends with the group your with, i do believe that is more important than a lot of the other things that we have been posting here. everyone is in the same boat, and you meet some dedicated people that you can share the misery with.
antney
 
Pay at AF

When I left the American Flyers at Chicago, DPA last August I had been there just over two years. During the two years that I was there, the way we were paid changed at least three times. Not really pay raises, but just different methods used. And I am pretty sure that each Flyers school pays its instructors a little differently.

When I left this is what a new full timer at DPA could expect:

$1200 base salary for 0-100 revenue hours
$12/hour for 101-150 revenue hours
$16/hour for 151+ revenue hours

After one year of full time employment you got a raise as follows:

$1400 base salary for 0-100 revenue hours
$15/hour for 101-150 revenue hours
$19/hour for 151+ revenue hours

***A revenue hour is that time billed to a student weather it was in the a/c, trainer, or ground.

The base salary is nice because you are guaranteed to make at least that no matter how many rev. hours under 100 you work. This comes in handy when the Wx goes to pot and nobody is flying. Like antney said, there are other incentives that go along with this as well. These bonuses can add an additional $50-150 to each paycheck. Additionally, if you taught one of the weekend groundschools, you were paid for 34 revenue hours for 24 hours of class time. Other bonuses were unlimited use of the Frasca 141 trainers, and a few hours a month in the a/c for proficiency... all at no cost to the instructor. Once a month we would have an instructor meeting and afterwards the school manager would take us out for dinner and drinks. We instructors ALWAYS took advantage of this. Tack on another $35 per instructor for those nights! My two years at Flyers were not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but I do not regret working there at all. Again like antney said, I made some life friends there and had a blast working with them while I was there! Come to think of it, I actually miss it sometimes. How wierd is that!:rolleyes:

Like I said, for an instructor, I think I made pretty good money at DPA Flyers. A heck of alot more than my first regional job.... while it lasted anyways.
 
I left American Flyers in 1997. I spent about 18 months there between FTW and ADS. I had two other sources of income in addition to my wife's. She was a computer programmer.

We knew I was underpaid. However, that was what the instructor market was throughout Texas. I knew instructors at other schools who were paid six dollars/hour for flight time and nothing for ground and sim time. Comair Aviation Academy instructors were paid something like nine dollars/hour for flight time and four-five an hour for ground and sim time. That was also in 1997.

I worked part time with my CFI (got my CFII at AF) at another school prior to AF. I earned $12/hour there but had to recruit most of my own students.
 

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