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Airline Pilot Unions

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Nevets

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Posts
2,431
The aircraft lumbers to the gate, the nose wheel bouncing over the potholes that the airport authority has deemed not deep enough to repair. The jet bridge gently bumps the plane’s side, the door slides open and the day starts to come to a close. The parking checks are completed, the grumbling passengers head on to their sunny destinations and the crew trudges off the plane, exhausted but done with a long 4 day trip. A faint bleating alerts the Captain he has a message on his cell phone. Jamming it to his ear, his normally smiling face goes through an abrupt change a few seconds later. “The Chief Pilot wants to talk to me about a call from the Feds!” In the crews exhaustion, a taxi instruction may have been botched, a speed limit exceeded or an altitude busted. But no matter the reason for the call, it still starts a nerve wracking chain reaction. These simple words can often trigger a violent rush of adrenaline and sweat, flashing a blur of scenes across the pilot’s mind, everything from a dark, bank vault style office stacked high with crusty old FAA types, each dangling a copy of his license from their gnarled fingers, a small lit match dancing underneath it, to a raging Chief Pilot hunched over a huge mahogany desk, spittle flying wildly as he begins a spirited deconstruction of the pilots confidence coupled with an erosion of his feeling of job security. The fear of the unknown runs rampant. What did I do? Did we really miss a crossing restriction? Is my resume updated?

While these images may be a small stretch of reality in many of today’s airlines, they did indeed play out on a regular basis in decades prior. The trip to the Chief Pilots office or a call to the “Tower” used to have connotations of doom and punishment, a solitary walk to the airline gallows. But with the exponential growth of the airlines throughout the 20th century, and along with it the airline labor movement, these scenes have become, for the most part, a memory. A call to the carpet is no longer a death row style march alone. Representation is provided, contracts are fought to be honored, advice dispensed and often there is some form of mitigation to the discipline being meted out. Safety issues are addressed with a larger impact in no small part due to the collective voice a union provides. Issues such as alcohol or drugs are now dealt with in a more understanding manner, affording the pilot a chance to heal themselves and redeem what once would have been a trashed career. Programs partnered with the FAA, such as ASAP and FOQA, allow for a somewhat friendlier environment for a pilot when mistakes are made. Hotel problems, pilot to pilot issues, medical issues, loss of license issues and a host of other day to day headaches faced by the line pilot are handled with programs spawned from the organized labor movement. These were all made possible and staffed by a group of volunteers who are the core of the modern day union.

The strong culture of volunteering within the frame work of a union has created a viable bargaining agent that, for the most part, promotes the collective interest and safety of its membership. The regulated hours a pilot may fly, the conditions a pilot may operate in, the improvements made in aircraft and airports, and a myriad of other career enhancements were all accomplished by men and women who donated their time and effort in order to better the career and its periphery. Along with these benefits, tools for engaging management in a fair and equitable manner grew. The strength of a pilot group often dictated the treatment it received, the level of safety it operated under and the image it portrayed to the flying public. A loud, unified voice produced results that no single voice could ever hope to achieve. But today, that voice has become somewhat muted. And along with its lower volume comes a steady erosion of the hard won benefits that pilots have enjoyed for years.
union_cockpit.jpg


Pensions, wages and work rules became some of the first victims to fall to the post 9-11 aviation era. Giving back became the mantra of management. Jobs were no longer so secure and furloughs and bankruptcies became sickeningly common place. Caught up in the battle to draw the line in the sand were the unions and their members. Support and unity were also caught up in the mix, damaged by what many saw as an unwarranted acquiescence to management’s demands by union leadership. Calls to give no quarter for what many saw as a ransom for employment by management hell bent on self indulging bonuses fractured the unity of the union’s membership, with others envisioning the ghosts of Eastern rising up in the gloom and seeing a point in giving back. This rocky path has slowly started to come full circle. These turbulent waters are slowly receding, with profitability returning to airlines and a fragile, budding new sense of unity slowly taking root. Giving up has gone the way of the dinosaur and taking back has become the staple cry.

Members, once content to sit idly and watch their futures be negotiated for them, are now taking an active role as volunteers. Their voices are being heard louder than ever. Programs that once languished on the sidelines are now being revived and utilized to increase awareness and information to the pilot group, spurred on by a new wave of unity. Informational picketing is taking the battle for wage and benefit restoration out to the public. Apathy is slowly fading. Volunteers are once again becoming the Captains to their own destinies, with their hands planted firmly on the wheel and their eyes on restoring dignity to the profession that we all work within. It is the next few generations of pilots who will ultimately see the fruits of this new incarnation of the labor movement. It is those young pilots who are just starting out that will become the volunteers of tomorrow, the leaders in the steep, but conquerable, path that lies ahead that will bring back the luster and shine of the professional pilot.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/prof...connors/airline_pilot_unions_20071031264.html
 
Airline union aren't unions, they are businesses
 
Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.
 
Airline union aren't unions, they are businesses

Wow.... why is it when I volunteer on my day off and get reimbursed for say a hotel, taxi or a meal, I have to pay taxes on the value of the hotel/taxi/meal from my own funds? What kind of business is that?

Unions aren't a French maid with big tits serving you Bud Light on silver platter... and you're disapointed at that.... perhaps you should manage your expectations a bit better....

Don't worry, we will still volunteer so you can take this profession for granted and do whatever you want on your time off..... We know how to deal with those who shat where they eat.....


Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.

Pilotyip...

fair observation.... however, don't forget the CEO compensation factor...

Many love to blame unions...for a companies failure however, reply to this:

Unions don't have the "power" in this country. The laws and culture and slighted towards business.. not the worker.... advantage: Companies.

When a Big Three Auto or Airline CEO takes a huge compensation package, for example UAL's Tilton, what do you expect the unions to do? Tilton is a BK and merger man. That is why he is there... So he rapes the companies money, takes from the employees, furloughs and plans to do it again with a merger.... Advantage: Company.

Liken it to a parent/child relationship and a 'Do as I say and not as I do' paradigm.


Are you saying that unions, that are at a disadvantage, with the deck stacked against them, should take the high road? Sure it is easy to say yes on FI, but pragmatically, if they did, thier membership would cry foul and say the union leadership was under the CEO's desk.

Now, look at companies like SAS, Costco and SWA.... The difference... the Corporate Leadership.

Don't expect unions to be refined southern socialites when they are treated like city street people...
 
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That big business mentality has

certainly screwed us for a bit, but it is still the street level volunteers who get it done.... For those who want to sit back and bitch about what should be done to those who get it done...
 
Wow.... why is it when I volunteer on my day off and get reimbursed for say a hotel, taxi or a meal, I have to pay taxes on the value of the hotel/taxi/meal from my own funds?

Because we have bad tax laws in this country Rez.... Hillary and Obama will make them worse..... How about the fair tax? How about tax reductions?

Hey we agree on something...... you shouldn't pay taxes on reimbursements.... Then again, I don't believe ANYONE should pay income taxes....

Although I know first hand that many ALPA volunteers take the full meal values even when they don't use them to make up for these issues......
 
Because we have bad tax laws in this country Rez.... Hillary and Obama will make them worse..... How about the fair tax? How about tax reductions?

Hey we agree on something...... you shouldn't pay taxes on reimbursements.... Then again, I don't believe ANYONE should pay income taxes....

Joey.... ALPA volunteers began paying taxes on expenses...during the Bush Admin. It was a Bush directed policy...:rolleyes:

Although I know first hand that many ALPA volunteers take the full meal values even when they don't use them to make up for these issues......

When I was volunteering I would fly Fri-Mon. Then the MEC meeting was Tues-Thur. So while I was working 7/days a week, others where off doing whatever they wanted. Someone needs to mind the store....

Like it or not allot of relationship building and effectiveness gets done over a beer at dinner.... I just volunteered 30 hours of time to my pilot group. I don't charge 30 hours(payrate)= $$$ to my pilot group. So when I am at an union paid dinner I might order dessert whereas I normally might not.... Does the membership want to complian that I was out till 2130 discussing the business of the Association eating cheesecake on thier dime? of course I pay taxes on that dinner....

Sadly there are toolboxes that will complain that didn't get a PBJ.....
 
Joey.... ALPA volunteers began paying taxes on expenses...during the Bush Admin. It was a Bush directed policy...:rolleyes:

That's because there is a lot of misuse of union member's money..... When I started doing union work, and we were shown how to fill out our expense sheet, we were told to just take the full value of the meal whether we used it or not.....

For example, I believe Breakfast was allowed up to $10 at the time..... don't remember exactly.... In Herndon, or wherever, most ALPA volunteers would eat the free meal provided by the hotel then expense $11..... In that case, that is income....

There is far too much history of corruption in unions.... Now if we got rid of the income tax, and replaced it with the fair tax, you could get reimbursed for what you spent and there would be no tax on it.....
 
WRONG!! Sorry Joey... your hate, disdain and bitter for ALPA negates your ability to think objectively...


That's because there is a lot of misuse of union member's money..... When I started doing union work, and we were shown how to fill out our expense sheet, we were told to just take the full value of the meal whether we used it or not.....

And what did you do?

Do you call up your payroll department at the end of the month and say... you know I really didn't use all of my per deim.... here is a percentage back...


For example, I believe Breakfast was allowed up to $10 at the time..... don't remember exactly.... In Herndon, or wherever, most ALPA volunteers would eat the free meal provided by the hotel then expense $11..... In that case, that is income....

Really Joey.... when I did volunteer work, often a lunch was catered at Herndon (sandwhiches on a plastic tray...we WORKED thru lunch)... I did NOT expense a lunch... not sure what you did, but you phcuked ALPA before, I am sure you did it in many ways...


There is far too much history of corruption in unions.... Now if we got rid of the income tax, and replaced it with the fair tax, you could get reimbursed for what you spent and there would be no tax on it.....

I'll give you this..... people are in ALPA. People are in gov't and churches.... in fact there is allot of corruption going on in church finances lately... but let;s not talk about that... let's just slam ALPA. Anytime you have people in an oranization, you are going to have imperfections. It doesn't make the enitre organization invalidated!!

Sure there is some guys in ALPA that try and screw everyone.... like you Joey with your silly RJDC.. but that is NOT ALPA policy... it is an individuals poor judgement..... don't try and make the entire organization responsible for an individuals actions..

In addtion, the demands of LM-2 reporting destroy your efferts to discredit ALPA....

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/12/pdf/landrum_griffin.pdf
 

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