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AI disconnect for Spin training?

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COOPERVANE

Member since 1967
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Posts
2,167
As a CFI, I routinely demonstrate spin recoveries in the A/C prior to a private student going to his/her checkride. Recently, there was some discussion among CFI's about disconnecting the vacuum system or AI during spin training to prevent damage.
I received my spin training from an 18 year veteran Cessna test pilot. She never mentioned this and I cannot find any info on it. Any thoughts?
 
How could you possibly disconnect the AI if it's vacume driven by an engine driven vacume pump? Unless you have an electrical one?
 
I have no clue, I suppose you could disconnect the vacuum somehow but I have NEVER heard of this.:)
 
Hey guys I might be wrong, but I thought the FAA prohibited instructors to intentionally enter spins with students unless it is done during the CFI training for the required spin endorsement. I was under the impression that the only spin training that could be given to students (other than the CFI candidate) was ground instruction.

Was this only a 141 rule or am I just imagining things again?
 
ILLINI said:
Hey guys I might be wrong, but I thought the FAA prohibited instructors to intentionally enter spins with students unless it is done during the CFI training for the required spin endorsement.

Nope; not prohibited at all, unless it was something specific to your 141 school you mentioned, or the airplane manual prohibits it.

You may be thinking of 91.307, which requires parachutes be worn by each occupant, other than required crew, during maneuvers that exceed 60 degrees of bank or 30 degrees of pitch. However, it goes on to specifically exclude "Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by...A certificated flight instructor."

Spins are required for "any certificate" (the instructor certificate, specifically), and are therefore exempt from the parachute requirement.

=Julio
 
The FAA put out an Advisory circular saying that CFIs could give spin training even though it is not required for any certificate but the CFI.

A private pilot going up with a passenger would be something entirely different and illegal. (unless you had a a/c with parachutes)
 
In addition, the Decathlon at the flt school had disconnected vacuum supply to the Attitude indicator to prevent tumbling then was legally marked inop. Also on some gyros (like the old seagulls black and white) there is a option to cage the gyro or lock it.
 
Aerobatic manuevers can destroy a gyro if they are severe enough but I dont think a one turn spin during CFI instruction is severe enough. Dedicated aerobatic airplane with gyro instruments have a provision for caging them while flying acro to prevent them from tumbling. As was already stated you cant disconnect a vaccum instrument unless you pull the air hose off it but even if you did it would still tumble.

Bottom line is for CFI spin training its not necessary to cage the gyros as the upset is not that severe.
 
Also a spin is an aerobatic manuever as it easily exceeds the pitch and bank limits of Part 91. You would be exempt from wearing a parachute if you were conducting spin training for a CFI endorsement. The parachute requirement by the way is for passengers only. A PIC flying solo or with passengers would not be required to wear one under any circumstances although his/her passengers would be.
 
AI operating limits

"Safe operating limits of typical air-driven instruments are 60 degrees of pitch and 100 degrees of bank. An electrically driven, self contained AI permits 360 degree rolls & loops without tumbling." excerpt from Modern Airmanship.
I'm of the understanding from my own instructor that recent air-driven AIs are capable of 90 degrees of pitch & 120 degrees of bank though I have not read a tech manual yet to confirm that.
 

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