Advice for first break?

DesertFalcon

Member since 1999
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During my years in aviation I have not had very good luck.
I have almost 8000 hours and no jet time.

Can anyone give me a few tips on how to break into the Jet environment.

How did you convince someone to hire you for your first jet job?

Suggestions?

Thanks.
DesertFalcon
 

empenage

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DesertFalcon:

Personally....I begged. Really. I talked to everyone who would listen and after years of begging I got the nod. I'm glad I worked so hard at it because it really paid off in the end.

You can try a charter operator who has a mix of turbo-props and jets and work your way in that way or try to get hired by a airline that has both props and jets and work your way up. I went through 1500 hrs. in a Navajo hopeing to get some time in the company King Air at one company and when the time came for me to upgrade to the E-90 I got laid off. I ended up laid off in the last ressesion. Bummer. But I kept at it and it really paid off. If you really want to fly jets you have to work at it every day. I've had resumes in my briefcase since 1980, still do today. Dont leave home without at least 30!
 

DesertFalcon

Member since 1999
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Enpenage;

Sounds like you are a real go-getter type.

I seem to go thru cycles, with regard to my employment attempts.
I am working on getting the Jet time, currently.

However, this is not a very good time to be changing jobs as a pilot. So many out of work; I am grateful that I have a job flying today!

Another factor, I am getting tired of constantly having to change jobs. It would be nice to find my "Final Resting Place", so to speak. :)

Question? What did you promise them in order for them to take you up on you offer?

Do you think is it worth it to by a Cheap type, such as, a Citation type?

Thanks for the feedback.

DesertFalcon
 

hawkerjet

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I recognize the picture of your airplane and you are in a great location for a corporate jet job, if you're still in LAS. There are over a dozen charter companies around the LAS and North Vegas airfields. There are two companies alone that share Eagles building,TWC & the Sabre operator located in the FBO. ( can't think of their name off the top of my head.) Also In Signatures' office complex are a couple more. Adjacent to Eagles ops is Quail Lodge(or Ridge) which houses several Astra's and Gulfstreams. Most of the gambling casino's have different names for their aviation departments. If you are tired of Vegas, Southern California has a ton of jet charter operator's that are in LAS daily. Hang around the fbo and find out who is hiring from the pilot's. My advice to you is persistance. If you are persistant and diligent you'll be hired by a new company flying jets all over the world. Good Luck.
 

DesertFalcon

Member since 1999
Joined
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Posts
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Hey HawkerJet;

Thanks for the good advice.

I really like your idea of persistance; You are right, I need to keep trying and trying!

I am familiar with many of the operators at Mc Carran and I will have to give them a call. I should check out the N. Las Vegas operators as you have suggested.

Do you still live in Las Vegas?
What kind of job are you doing now?

Thanks again,

DesertFalcon

==============================================

I recognize the picture of your airplane and you are in a great location for a corporate jet job, if you're still in LAS. There are over a dozen charter companies around the LAS and North Vegas airfields. There are two companies alone that share Eagles building,TWC & the Sabre operator located in the FBO. ( can't think of their name off the top of my head.) Also In Signatures' office complex are a couple more. Adjacent to Eagles ops is Quail Lodge(or Ridge) which houses several Astra's and Gulfstreams. Most of the gambling casino's have different names for their aviation departments. If you are tired of Vegas, Southern California has a ton of jet charter operator's that are in LAS daily. Hang around the fbo and find out who is hiring from the pilot's. My advice to you is persistance. If you are persistant and diligent you'll be hired by a new company flying jets all over the world. Good Luck:)
 

hawkerjet

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Hey desert falcon, I live in the LA area and primarily fly part 91 for a small company that has world wide concerns, however I still do some side contract work in the part 135 field. I go to LAS frequently and am familiar with many of the companies out there. One question I was thinking of; how much pic turbine do you have? I noticed you flew the "99" and twin otter, both good airplanes, do you have any pic in those aircraft? I also noticed you weren't typed in the F-27. If you have pic time that should get you in the door. If not no need to worry, A turbine engine is a turbine engine although one is used to spin a propeller and the other to compress a mass of air. Let your future employer know that you have never fried a turbine engine( provided you haven't) and let them know the intricacies of the RR dart engine. That is one hell of a sensitive engine. Also let them know how difficult it is to overhaul these engines( don't you send them to Australia for heavy Mx) and as a pilot you're involved in the smooth operation of this older equipment. The only downside I could foresee is your IMC time, probably not much, flying back and forth to the "ditch" most of the time. Make sure your instrument skills are up to speed. Get on your interview suit and get your resume's ready and visit all the operators you know of , in person, weekly. Find out the DO's names' and CP's also; request to meet them or set up an appointment. Many companies are looking for stability, so think of where you'd like to be in five years and be honest. If it's the major's tell them, but also let them know you'd be willing to stay with this company for a couple of years until your ready. Training is a large expense in the corporate flight department and some companies skimp on the training to save money. Find out ahead of time how the company trains their pilots. If they send you to school you may want to enter an agreement with them stating that you will remain with them for 1 year after training is done. That's about right. Also when you sign an agreement in exchange for training most people know it's not worth the paper it's written on, however, aviation is a small world and your word means a lot, and will follow you around, so be careful what you agree to. These are a few things you can do to make yourself attractive to your future employer. You have a lot of experience to offer a new company, turbine time, CRM, flight crew experience,hot and high experience, etc,etc . You just need to let your next employer know about you. Good Luck
 

empenage

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DesertFalcon:

HawkerJet is right on the money. If you can pick up a copy of the NBAA Directory of Business Operators it will help greatly. It will list all the operators in your area that are members..Most are.

National Business Aviation Association
1200 Eighteenth St. NW
Suite 400
Washington, DC 20036-2527

web: info@nbaa.org
202-783-0000

Beg, borrow or steal (kidding) a copy of the members directory, even if its outdated. I always beg the old copy from a dispatcher friend of mine (he likes Cuban cigars). It lists all the members by location, equipment, etc. etc. Its the Bible of Biz Jets.

Good Luck.
 

DesertFalcon

Member since 1999
Joined
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Posts
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hawkerjet said:
Hey desert falcon, I live in the LA area and primarily fly part 91 for a small company that has world wide concerns, however I still do some side contract work in the part 135 field. I go to LAS frequently and am familiar with many of the companies out there. One question I was thinking of; how much pic turbine do you have?

===============================
ANSWER: I have 1700 hours PIC turbine.
===============================

I noticed you flew the "99" and twin otter, both good airplanes, do you have any pic in those aircraft?

===============================
ANSWER: Yes, I have PIC in both aircraft. I enjoyed both aircraft. Obviously, they are very different in their design; Both PT-6 engines.
===============================

I also noticed you weren't typed in the F-27. If you have pic time that should get you in the door. If not no need to worry, A turbine engine is a turbine engine although one is used to spin a propeller and the other to compress a mass of air. Let your future employer know that you have never fried a turbine engine( provided you haven't) and let them know the intricacies of the RR dart engine.

===============================
ANSWER: No, I have not fried and engine.

QUESTION? You seem to be very aware of the situation I am in;
Either that, or you a psychic? The Rolls-Royce engine is pretty unique; It is also very noisy on the ground!

Have you flown an aircraft with the RR engine?
===============================


That is one hell of a sensitive engine. Also let them know how difficult it is to overhaul these engines( don't you send them to Australia for heavy Mx) and as a pilot you're involved in the smooth operation of this older equipment.

===============================
ANSWER: Yes, we do send them out to New Zealand for overhaul.
As far as smooth operation, the F-27 is a hard airplane to fly. A Gigantic checklist and everything is manual; No Autopilot, and we have to manually adjust the fuel trim. Interesting aircraft to fly, to say the least.
===============================


The only downside I could foresee is your IMC time, probably not much, flying back and forth to the "ditch" most of the time.

===============================
ANSWER; Actually, I am getting a lot of instrument time flying the Air Laughlin runs to Phoenix, Burbank, Ontario, San Jose, Long Beach, Etc. We also do essential air service to Merced, California.
So, I am really getting a wide range of flying. We just got back from Texas doing a Navy Charter Flight; All military bases.
===============================

Make sure your instrument skills are up to speed. Get on your interview suit and get your resume's ready and visit all the operators you know of , in person, weekly. Find out the DO's names' and CP's also; request to meet them or set up an appointment. Many companies are looking for stability, so think of where you'd like to be in five years and be honest. If it's the major's tell them, but also let them know you'd be willing to stay with this company for a couple of years until your ready. Training is a large expense in the corporate flight department and some companies skimp on the training to save money. Find out ahead of time how the company trains their pilots. If they send you to school you may want to enter an agreement with them stating that you will remain with them for 1 year after training is done. That's about right. Also when you sign an agreement in exchange for training most people know it's not worth the paper it's written on, however, aviation is a small world and your word means a lot, and will follow you around, so be careful what you agree to. These are a few things you can do to make yourself attractive to your future employer.

You have a lot of experience to offer a new company, turbine time, CRM, flight crew experience,hot and high experience, etc,etc . You just need to let your next employer know about you.
Good Luck
================================

ANSWER: My experience doesn't compare you your experience, regarding equipment. Perhaps, I have not been focused enough on one area of aviation?

Anyhow, your advice has been very inspiring. I am glad that I asked for help. You have been very insightful and motivating.

What type of aircraft are you flying now?

DesertFalcon

================================
 

DesertFalcon

Member since 1999
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
286
Total Time
8700+
Empenage;

Both you and HawkerJet are really coming up with some good ideas. Thank both of your for being so helpful.

Which one of the airplanes listed in your profile do you fly now?
Which one is your favorite?

DesertFalcon


empenage said:
DesertFalcon:

HawkerJet is right on the money. If you can pick up a copy of the NBAA Directory of Business Operators it will help greatly. It will list all the operators in your area that are members..Most are.

National Business Aviation Association
1200 Eighteenth St. NW
Suite 400
Washington, DC 20036-2527

web: info@nbaa.org
202-783-0000

Beg, borrow or steal (kidding) a copy of the members directory, even if its outdated. I always beg the old copy from a dispatcher friend of mine (he likes Cuban cigars). It lists all the members by location, equipment, etc. etc. Its the Bible of Biz Jets.

Good Luck.
 

empenage

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
528
Total Time
8500
DesertFalcon:

I'm a captain on a Gulfstream 4 right now. It's a very automated Biz Jet with a 4,400 nm range. I've been really lucky and have operated it all over the world for various companies. It takes getting used to because it's so automated. I just got back from Maui non-stop to NY the other day and its hard not to dose off!

A cheap type cant hurt if you have the cash. Training is never a waste of money. Get the directory and find out who has what type of aircraft in your area. Then approach the operaters and tell them what you have in mind and see what reaction you get. Be very visable. Be very friendly. Show them you are willing to work.

I really like the Challengers. The 604 is a sweet machine. It has decent range and a really big cockpit. I had the most fun in an old Citation S/II flying up and down the east coast. I'd rather be flying down the east coast than plodding through Africa in the G4. All the Biz Jets I have flown are easy to fly. The hardest aircraft I have had to fly are the light twins, jets are easy.

Ive had some bad luck along the way. Dont let it get you down. I drove onto the field one time and watched the Navajo I was flying bank gently over the airport. It really looked great in flight! Took me several minutes to realize that I wasnt in it! Who the hell was flying my ship! The owner sent it to a broker just before he went chapter 11. Never told me a thing. I was on a trip in a brand new Challenger and while waiting for passengers in Dallas was told to take the airplane to a maintenance field and drop it off because it was sold! I didnt even know it was for sale!!


Good luck Guy.
 

JayDub

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DesertFalcon,

You need to get on the phone right now! Call Executive Jet management in Cincinnati, Ohio. The phone number is 513-871 2004 or 2005, I think.

They operate Citations and Falcon 50s on a "float" schedule. I think they'll fly you to the airplane no matter where you live anymore. They love high time guys, no matter if you have any jet time. A lot of old Army types, so they don't really appreciate jet time.

When I was there, it had some kinks to work out, but I understand it is getting better. You can search this forum for a little info.

If I can help any more, please let me know.





JayDub
 

DesertFalcon

Member since 1999
Joined
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Posts
286
Total Time
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JayDub said:
DesertFalcon,

You need to get on the phone right now! Call Executive Jet management in Cincinnati, Ohio. The phone number is 513-871 2004 or 2005, I think.

They operate Citations and Falcon 50s on a "float" schedule. I think they'll fly you to the airplane no matter where you live anymore. They love high time guys, no matter if you have any jet time. A lot of old Army types, so they don't really appreciate jet time.

When I was there, it had some kinks to work out, but I understand it is getting better. You can search this forum for a little info.

If I can help any more, please let me know.





JayDub

JayDub;

Thank you very much for the information concerning EJM.
What was the lifestyle at EJM when you worked there?

Did you live where you worked?

I understand that EJM is not directly part of Executive Jet.

I read somewhere that EJM is owned, or run by a different company?

What is the starting salary range?

Thanks again.

DesertFalcon:)
 

JayDub

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Posts
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DesertFalcon,

I lived in base in Cincy. I joined the company at a completely different time, before we had the program to back-up the Columbus operation. I did end up on the Falcon 50 float, but it was back when they had a 6-on, 4-off sked. That was rough. It is now a 7 and 7 op. When I was there, I think Citation F.O.s started at @ 27000/yr. which was a lot more than when I started. As far as accurate numbers, call the company, they will be able to tell you right away.

EJM used to be owned by a small faction of the owners of EJA. This changed when Buffett bought the company. Berkshire-Hathaway, or whatever it is called, owns all of EJA and EJM, but maybe Gulfstream owns a portion of EJI. I am not sure. I do know things changed for the better when BH bought them. Pay, benefits, etc.

EJM has a bunch of different missions. It is really hard pin-point anything as far as lifestyle, etc. goes. Here's my 2 cents:
If you want a job other than what you are doing right now (which it sounds like is the case), then you need to be prepared for the next hiring boon. IMHO, that means getting some jet time. It is by no means required, but any edge is worth pursuing. EJM is a great place to get that time, and to learn about the whole corporate/charter world. If you go in there to have a career, you might be disappointed. If you go in there to use them, like they use you, you'll keep things in better perspective. Then, if you find a deal you just can't leave (which does happen, especially if you are willing to move), things are all the better for you.

Sorry I can't help more than this. I think you have nothing to lose. I have no idea if they are hiring or not, but they usually are. The upgrade, especially if you have 3500TT is usally rather quick, as well.

JayDub
 

DesertFalcon

Member since 1999
Joined
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JayDub;

Very Good....Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.
I will investigate further.

I wish you good things.

DesertFalcon
 
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