12 legs a day!

tired_pilot

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Just thought you guys would find this interesting since fatigue and performance has been on the board.
Pan Am Express..dba Boston and Maine's having pilots fly the J-31...12 legs a day, 16 hour duty days most days, 6 on 1 off schedule. J-31 in the NE..no autopilot.....let you draw your own conclusions.
Fly safe!
 

jordan

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Pushing their luck

Percentages will tell you that with that amount of flying time without rest, it is only a matter of time until an accident occurs. Especially flying a plane without autopilot, fatigue from both physical and mental tasks will compound.
 

shamrock

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How many hours a day do you fly? Doing 12 legs without breaking 8 hours seems pretty hard unless you're doing Cape Air routes. Are they 121? If they are you've gotta be bumping up against the 34 hour/7 day rule doing days like that. I know I've done 8 leg/14 hour duty days in a 1900 (no A/P) and all I can say is both of us were positively stupid by the 6th or 7th leg.

Good luck.

Get out as soon as you can!
 

qwerty

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Excuse me if I'm a dumby but if my Warrior has an autopilot why wouldn't a sexy turbine aircraft have one?
 
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Jungle Prop

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Alot of commuter turbo props don't have an autopilot. The Beech 1900 and J-31 to name a few. Your warrior may have GPS also, but most turboprops don't have that either. Ive flown 8 legs a day without an autopilot, it's ridiculous, then factor in some weather and it's downright unsafe. Shamrock is right, by the end of the day both your heads are jello. Sexy turbine aircraft, that's funny:D
 

sydeseet

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A J31 is sexy???? (kind of like Fat B@stard) No offense to anyone, but I wouldn't go that far. These aircraft don't have auto-pilots to save weight. 100 pounds of auto-pilot gear is 100 pounds of revenue that cannot be carried. I realize that may sound stupid to someone outside the industry, but business is business to a bean counter.
 
C

CornJulio

Also don't forget that no autopilot means no autopilot training (saves simulator and ground school time), no expense to buy it, and no expense to maintain it. Since a second pilot is going to be required anyway, there's no financial incentive for the company to install it. So they don't.

Like the bathroom, if it has dollar signs attached to it, they won't install it.
 

PHX767

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My record is a scheduled 14 leg weekend shift while I was temporarily based in Naples, FL. Scheduled for 7:59 flight time, and never left central Florida. We were lucky to find our way home by the end of the day.

The things we do for flying time.

Now I think, "THREE legs? How cruel!!!"

Of course that was when I was (ahem) working.

Well, I think I will go to the mailbox and wait for my unemployment check.
 

GoingHot

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sydeseet and CornJulio,

Thanks! Good explanation of why there is no autopilot on the small commuters. Everytime it came up, I would say, why?, it couldn't weigh that much. But when you factor in the cost of purchase and training and multiply that times the total fleet, you're talking about a real impact on the bottom line. When operating on thin margins, I guess any company would cut whatever they can get away with.

But I do take exception to your comments about "Sexy J-31. That would depend on where you're coming from. If you've been stareing at a glass cockpit inside a B-767 for the past five years, a J-31 is a low-rent pile of junk. But if you're the guy washing aircraft every weekend, and on occassion, get to fly .6 in a clapped out Cherokee 140, then a J-31 is "VERY SEXY". Man! How quickly we forget where we came from.
 

uwochris

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By no means does this compare, but last summer, I worked 36 hours over two days. That's two consecutive 18 hour shifts. This was also labour work. I honestly felt like I was going to pass out, and my boss yelled at me because I fell asleep in the middle of my shift! I can't imaging flying for that long. That's just plain stupid for everyone.
 

Humty72

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J32

sydeseet said:
A J31 is sexy???? (kind of like Fat B@stard)

Whoa... easy... I flew that thing for almost 3 years. It may be ugly and hot.. but it never let me down. (even with all the DMI stickers)
 

stingray

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I am a fomer Cape Air pilot and i have done 18legs in a 14hr day. I've seen another guy do 24legs in a 14hr day. and a lot of times we where flying in solid I all day, in a single pilot ops. also a lot of times we timed out for the day, week or month. Its sceduled 135. shot more hard approachs in a day then a lot of guys shoot all year. UNOS or 99
I can't belive any company still flys J-31 or 32 what a waist.
 
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Jetscream32

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Why is everyone knocking the streams? Granted it isn't a cushy lifestlye but it makes you thankful when you get to move up to a decked out plane with an autopilot and an FA. I am glad that we (CCair) are getting rid of ours but there are things I will miss.
1. Carolina 5150 you are 80 knot overtake on a 767 slow to 160.
2. Bumping my nads on every passengers' shoulder as I go back to close the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** door.
3. The satisfaction of shooting an approach down to "minimums" without the aid of an autopilot.
4. Thinking up creative replies to every passenger that steps on and says "Is this plane safe?" or "**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** this is small"
5. Etc. etc. etc. please feel free to add

Will I miss flying the old Turbo Gnat? NOT A CHANCE
Am I thakful I wasn't born into a glass cockpit with all the bells and whistles? Yes. I know where I came from and will never forget it thanks to the Mighty J-32
 

Colonel Cairo

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1. "CommutAir 2525, slow to approach speed, you're following traffic, a Northwest DC-9, 12 o'clock, 5 miles, and you've got 120 knots on him".

2. Thankfully, the door is up front on a 1900. Of course, doing the walkthrough before taking my seat caused the same problem. Just had to remember to face the hot chicks as I brushed by them, too bad we never carried any!

3. Doesn't everyone have to do that? :D

4. "Don't worry sir (ma'am), we fed the gerbils and wound the rubber bands so we'll be all right!

5. During a single engine taxi:

Passenger: (worried) "Uh, excuse me, but do you guys know that your left engine isn't running?"

Captain: "Yes ma'am, we were just discussing that. See, we're trying to settle a bet. I say we can take off on one engine but my counterpart here doesn't believe me, so I'm just gonna prove it to him once and for all and he's gonna owe me a steak dinner! Now if you'll just return to your seat we'll be underway shortly."

Might not sound that funny here but the look on the passenger face was priceless!
 
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A Squared

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Be thankful you don't fly 121 supplememtal international rules. 12 hours flight time per 24 hours, no duty time limits. TurboS7 can relate, I'm sure.

My longest duty day, from the time I showed to the time I walked out into the parking lot was over 22 hours. Most flight time in one day, 11.6 hours, 7 legs, 17 hours on duty, no autopilot, and before each leg, we loaded or unloaded 28,000 lbs of salmon in 2000 lb. bins, using a hand pallet jack. makes me tired just thinking about it.


regards
 

timetoclimb

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Part 121 Supplemental International is tough duty. 24 hours and still flying. How about single pilot merlin flying in ice and tstms 5 nights a week and 11 hours a night on duty? Hey...no wonder I wear a small watch. Phuq that. Flying is better left for Sunday afternoons in a convertible Steen Skybolt listening to the Doobie Brothers in Class G.
 

Marko Ramius

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Colonel Cairo said:

5. During a single engine taxi:

Passenger: (worried) "Uh, excuse me, but do you guys know that your left engine isn't running?"

Captain: "Yes ma'am, we were just discussing that. See, we're trying to settle a bet. I say we can take off on one engine but my counterpart here doesn't believe me, so I'm just gonna prove it to him once and for all and he's gonna owe me a steak dinner! Now if you'll just return to your seat we'll be underway shortly."

Might not sound that funny here but the look on the passenger face was priceless!
Does Commutair have power steering on their 1900's to allow SE taxi? We were always prohibited from doing so at the carrier I worked for.
 

Colonel Cairo

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This was from when CommutAir still had some old 1900s with the power steering option. There aren't any in the fleet today but single engine taxis are still done (and allowed). Just takes more muscle and a little planning.
 

Acestick

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Tired...?

I don't know about anyone else, but I would kill to have a job and flying commuters 6 days a week...

If your looking for a replacement don't hesitate to call me


hehehe
 

chperplt

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Hey Colonel Cairo

Got to love walking the isle of that 1900... At least you're in a "D". I have to find two open seats to turn my fat as@ around in the "C". God help me when two really fat people sit next to each other. Uhm.. Excuse me please.. need to squeeze through here..
When I do get the pleasure of flying our one and only D, I always seem to rip my fu@king balls apart trying to get in the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** seat. Only good thing about the C.. Easy to get in and out of.. sorta


What a great plane it is otherwise. I love shooting the visual to 4L in Boston and screaming by the jets on final, slowing down 3 miles out..

Ever try and steer that thing with the nose gear steering disconnected? What a joy!
 
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