Dishonesty at Endeavor?

[A-10_JetMech]

Heard that the number of 200's staying at 9e depends on the availability of crew or the ability to hire enough to fly desired number of aircraft. With upgrades to new 900's can the company sustain/obtain enough pilots to fly these 200's? The number of 200's staying is rumored to be between 80-100.

 

[1.3XVso]

Heard that the number of 200's staying at 9e depends on the availability of crew or the ability to hire enough to fly desired number of aircraft. With upgrades to new 900's can the company sustain/obtain enough pilots to fly these 200's? The number of 200's staying is rumored to be between 80-100.

They thought people would fly the jet for free.

 

[A-10_JetMech]

Agreed. Might bite them in the ass. Karma's a bitch!

 

[jynxyjericho]

Heard that the number of 200's staying at 9e depends on the availability of crew or the ability to hire enough to fly desired number of aircraft. With upgrades to new 900's can the company sustain/obtain enough pilots to fly these 200's? The number of 200's staying is rumored to be between 80-100.

I would imagine that is correct. Right now we are going to be short and management sounds defeated. The new hire experiment has failed... well if you believe the rumor... and Barry has made it clear there will be no pay raises and they have no idea how to attract pilots. We will just have to accelerate the parking I suppose.

 

[1.3XVso]

I would imagine that is correct. Right now we are going to be short and management sounds defeated. The new hire experiment has failed... well if you believe the rumor... and Barry has made it clear there will be no pay raises and they have no idea how to attract pilots. We will just have to accelerate the parking I suppose.

All you had to do was vote NO. Let me find a nice lullaby tune for ya.." Twinkle twinkle little star" night night don't let the bed bug bite.

 

[xray678]

So our pickup rate for SSP hires is down to 48%. 85% to 65% to 48% (sure to go lower soon). Pretty awesome. 52% of Endeavor pilots aren't good enough to transport Delta passengers around, so they have to stay at their jobs transporting Delta passengers around.
.

Just curious, what do you think the percentage should be? Do you really think 100% should be hired at Delta? Do you think the percentages would be different if the same pilots had interviewed at AA or UAL?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I think there were quite a few guys that were lifers before the paycuts that now see that they would now only take one or two years hit before making more again at the majors. Their attitudes, employment records, logbooks, ect. bear those thoughts out. They are now either kicking themselves for voting yes, passing on the flow, or both.

 

[jynxyjericho]

All you had to do was vote NO. Let me find a nice lullaby tune for ya.." Twinkle twinkle little star" night night don't let the bed bug bite.

If I had voted no all of this would have been fixed? By voting "no" a time warp would have revealed itself and changed every bad decision Phil made getting us to BK? You try to reconcile every wrong turn this company has made into a referendum on the concessionary contract vote. You convince anyone yet? Have you convinced yourself?

As Morpheus said, "Welcome to the real world, Neo." When you are in a BK you will get paycuts, as well as everyone else, the MX, FA's, lessors, Hotels (well they get nothing), vendors for software and hardware. If you haven't got the airplanes/engines you haven't got an airline, and those lessors will be taking cuts just like us. Pilots could be more important in the process and better compensated if we unionized like a skilled workforce, but we don't. 90% of pilots don't care, and that's an overwhelming majority. You got outvoted by 85%, and you only say you voted NO. You can say a lot of crap online. I think it's more likely you voted yes and are still embarrassed by it, so you over compensate online by screaming at public yes voters.

You're always good for a laugh, even if you are an angry crybaby. It's nonsense like yours ("just say no to the first offer") that got Pinnacle parked by the NMB. It wasn't a conspiracy by the NMB and the company so they could buy Mesaba, it was because you sabotage good faith negotiations, and you and your ilk are unreasonable children.

Just curious, what do you think the percentage should be? Do you really think 100% should be hired at Delta? Do you think the percentages would be different if the same pilots had interviewed at AA or UAL?

Did I say 100% should be hired? Of course not, that would be stupid to think and stupid to say, it's also insulting to suggest that I think that. I am forced to assume you aren't trying to be insulting, perhaps you are confused.

I don't know of any instance of an SSP in history so I don't know what the number "should be". I do know it is very likely that the SSP won't reach me and I don't have anything invested in the SSP. The part that bothers me and a lot of people at Endeavor is the SSP was suppose to be a non monetary benefit to make up the cuts we were taking in BK. That benefit is unfairly being withheld because Delta can't attract pilots here.

/History review
Keep in mind this was late in the game after we got the NY courts to deny Pinnacle's first ask (sub Go-Jet wages), and Pinnacle was told they either had to offer more money to the pilots or negotiate in good faith. To date, Pinnacle hadn't negotiated at all, so we couldn't get them in trouble with the courts for negotiating in bad faith, but the judge warned Pinnacle he was wise to the tactic. There was a lot of movement on the company's side all at once after that court denial. /end history review

I know it seems like I'm going off on a tangent but bear with me. The union and the company sat down after court and knocked together this concessionary deal which is a lot better than "the ask". Part of the deal revolved around using future hiring possibilities as leverage. The SSP was tossed around hotly by Delta (who was not our owner yet). However Pinnacle and Delta appeared to be above the board with their boasting of the program and a judgement call was made- that later on turned out to be wrong- to accept the offer. Our DO, a guy I respected very much, was told by Delta this would be a simple sit down to get to know the pilot. Another Delta manager that is now our CEO told us that any regional pilot would kill for the SSP we had. Promises don't guarantee results but watch this.

I know I'm losing you but stay with me. Chronologically this has been our course of events.

(Summer)
Union: we are losing a lot of pilots.

Guum-ball: (redacted from all pilot conference call) if any of you want to go to Delta, this is going to be the way going forward. Everyone wants this SSP. We don't want to furlough, people leaving is ok.

(Fall)
First couple SSP interviews end with a 85% yes from the HR people, the big gamble seems to have paid off.

Guum-ball: why hasn't the exodus slowed?

Union: Pay, there's no -200 soon, you lied and the SSP isn't going to available for downgraded captains.

Guum-ball: *public message* We may sort of kind of keep a couple -200's, maybe even 100 of them, *wink wink*.

SSP interviews continue, something like 75% thumbs up. Big gamble paid off. But wait!

First attempt at hiring goes poorly, very poorly. Second attempt is worse.

Guum-ball: Alright we need to get some signon bonuses for the new hires.

Union: Absolutely. Get rid of the concessionary LOA, resume the JCBA.

Guum-ball: Not a chance.

Union: OK. That's our offer.

(now'ish)

Third attempt is bleak at best, classes are suppose to start in January and we have no hope of getting the original 20 in the door. 150 apps, 50 were interviewable, 40 wanted (estimate), 20 actually said yes, now 6 think they'll make it to the class. We'll get 2-4 I'm guessing.

SSP interviews... 20%, 10%, LCA's with no failures and guys we'd all bend over backwards for can't get the nod.

The SSP interviewees aren't, judging from recent events, being given a fair interview anymore. Maybe it's better to say they won't be getting a nod anymore because we have a staffing problem. We have staffing problems, and management has given up on trying to fix them, they have said they don't know what they'll do, so Delta is fixing the problem for them. If fewer move up, fewer to restaff. We'll just park -200's faster.

Apparently 65-85% was ok for a while Xray. The dropoff in the yes's was SO quick that Guum-ball has to change sales tactics to the average instead of the actual numbers. One week, "We are proud 75% of the interviewers were hired this week". This week, "Good Lord guys, the average yes is 48% of all the people interviews so far. That's 48 above 0%, so when you look at it that way it's still a great deal." As interviews resume that average will continue to shrink, and that's my point. At some point that number will be numerically similar to the 20% and I'm curious how Guumy-ball will sell the SSP next.

I'm not going to pretend that's giving the interviewers a fair shake. You may pretend if you like. Some of those guys got time off without pay for the interview, so not only did you go to the interview sabotaged from the start but it costs you money on your paycheck. YOU may find that reasonable, but honestly we don't make much any more and every dollar helps. It appears the grumpy asses that didn't trust the company's offer of the SSP (who also voted yes to the concessions) were right after all.

 

[jynxyjericho]

I think there were quite a few guys that were lifers before the paycuts that now see that they would now only take one or two years hit before making more again at the majors. Their attitudes, employment records, logbooks, ect. bear those thoughts out. They are now either kicking themselves for voting yes, passing on the flow, or both.

When they passed on the flow it was NWA for $25 bucks an hour, second year was $40 (is that right? help guys). We all got to see the flows and one guy sold his house and went to a single car with a wife and two kids to make up the difference in pay until things got better. He regretted it until the Delta purchase, and the resultant contract. I had him in my jumpseat a few times. There was at least one flow that loved the change but he admitted his wife was the bread winner in the family. First year NWA pay was tough to take in your 50's or (God forbid) 60's.

Let's be honest. A lot of those lifers here are near retirement age. With the 25k payout, or whatever it was, they haven't taken a paycut yet. Next year will be tough then they'll retire.

I know they can defend themselves, but I think a little presence of mind and remembrance of facts goes a long way in these Monday quarterback sessions.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

First year was $30/hr, not sure after that, but most guys were coming up with about 6 years to get back and past what they would have staying put.