Airline Pay cuts driving away best pilots

[pilotyip]

I got it, lets go back to regulation

Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. BTW SWA the low cost provider has near the top wages, this was done under de-reg. Still is still la great way to make a living, pilots are not doctor's, if you want to be treated like a doctor finish med school, pilots are not wall street CEO's, if you want ot be a wall street CEO, get into one the top 10 MBA's school. You are pilot you fly airplanes, if you like doing that you are probably happy. If not you are in the wrong line of work. BTW who are the 50-75% who will give up their jobs so a few pilots can go back to the good ole day?

 

[AA717driver]

Blah, blah, blah.

What are you going to do about it?

Ooh, ooh, ooh! I know, I know (hand waving in the air)

The answer is: NOTHING.

I got beat down when I suggested taking advantage of this PR opportunity.

What was their alternative? Nothing. More of the same. PAC contributions. Talk to Congress.

Is Congress now going to look into our pay and working conditions because Sully told them to? Will the boys from ALPA National, APA, et al now have traction at the D.C. cocktail parties they attend? Will they have Senators flocking around them and hanging on their every word. Is Prater's number going to be on Oberstar's call log? (Will it even be on a sticky in Ob's assistant's office?)

Is management shaking in their Guccis?

Unless we get innovative and change our tactics, nothing will come of this golden opportunity. The stage is set, the microphone is on, the cameras are rolling, the seats in the theatre are full and nothing will happen because we didn't bother to show up because we were unwilling to try something different.

Sorry to interrupt. Please continue your discussion.

TC

 

[8v8ter]

Mpl

We can see the MPL in action at foreign airlines. I know a 21 year old girl in the ab-initio program at Lufthansa, a pretty reputable airline. Now, she is pretty sharp but she had never flown a powered aircraft before, and will spend one year in a classroom, the second year getting flight training in Arizona, and then into the right seat of an Airbus 320 with about 250 hours or less of TOTAL time. She will have the MPL when she is done. Lufthansa has some pretty experienced Captains, but they better be on their game EVERY leg.

By the way, can someone tell me what privileges can someone with the MPL exercise when not in an airline cockpit, ie., can they rent a Cessna on their own time?

 

[reepicheep]

I contend there will never be a true pilot shortage here in the US. The thing is you always have a new batch of kids coming up and they aren't trying to decide whether to be pilot, or a plumber, or a doctor. They want to fly. Period. And you're always going to have enough who are willing to instruct, fly an SJ, do what it takes to get into that 737. You can tell 'em they'll top out at 120k, 100k, 60k. They're still going to outsupply demand.

 

[skywiz]

MPL = bad idea

I'm a military pilot that aspires to be an airline pilot someday (becoming a mil pilot and then airline pilot has been a dream since I was a kid)

If there is ever a day when the MPL program (and I am an airline pilot) feeds 1 year wonders with 90% of their time in a sim to the Majors, I will walk out of the career for 3 reasons:

1) Its unsafe - it would be too much of a burden on the Captain to babysit the right seater. There is a reason you have 2 pilots. And the copilot needs years of experience. Yea..some will say the military does something similar to MPL, but its a very rigorous and selective process with lots and lots of training (took me 3.5 years before I even flew with my fleet squadron) ... and its costs approx 1 million give or take a few per student to get wings.

2) Pay will go even lower. Its bad enough as it is. But there is no way copilots with 1 yr of aviation experience are going to be making what first officers make now. It will drag aviation pay across the board down and make it a true blue collar job.

3) The pride of the profession will diminish dramatically. I like to think airline pilots are highly respected, skilled, and professional individuals that earn their experience either thru
a) the civilian ranks by thousands of hours of instructing, flying freight, regionals, etc.. or
b) the miltary with years of rigorous flight training, demanding missions, and performing under pressure in a military flight environment.

So with the MPL, they will put young pimpley face 1 year wonders into the cockpit of a 737 to fly the public? I never thought I would say this.. but I will walk out of the cockpit the day this happens in America.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Well, skywiz, you'd better not get in a Lufthansa 737 on your next leave.

Because that's how they train their F/Os.

 

[instructordude]

(I knew I would make less than a medical profession, but decided that 200K+ was good enough for me. I was going to be a radiologist. They start at 600K a year and have over 15 weeks of vacation Most of them are making over 1 million their first year out of residency. Point is that I knew there would bea difference)

I too had a similar problem. I was going to be a professional tennis player but after playing a little in college and talking some who were on the tour decided it wasn't for me. The long days on the tour, traveling to 20 different countries in a year, injuries and skin cancer didn't make the 1-2 million a year in pay worth it. I instead decided to be a pilot.:laugh:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm a military pilot that aspires to be an airline pilot someday (becoming a mil pilot and then airline pilot has been a dream since I was a kid)

One could argue that MIL flight training is a MPL program......


If you decide to become an airline pilot, and MPLs are common place, you'd best accept them as equals... the sooner you treat them as second class the sooner they will readily form their own representation unit and bargain against you....

Number one rule of unionization... we are all equal.

 

[Mud Eagle]

One could argue that MIL flight training is a MPL program......

Eh?

Is that how they turn a 22-year old with 250 hours loose in a single seat fighter?

 

[Flopgut]

I don't think an MPL will be paired with an over 60 captain. That will be interesting. Guys getting screwed by the rule right now will get furloughed on their 60 b-day because they can't fly with the FOs.